787 Rollout
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smokejumper
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I was thinking the same thing myself. On July 7, 2007, the B787 will roll out, probably with mechnaics tightening the wheel nuts as it rolls!achace wrote:I think that Boeing would have been very happy to use the 7/8/07 as applied to the European date system Another month I am sure would be appreciated by the production team.
Cheers
Achace
There is probably a lot of work to be done before first flight. This is not an uncommon situation, but it is probably more the case with the 787.
Boeing may scramble to get 787 into the air
Aviation Week & Space Technology
05/28/2007, page 57
Printed headline: Post-Rollout Catch-Up
The 787's rollout on July 8 remains on schedule, but the aircraft's worldwide supply chain is likely to experience some opening-day jitters.
The aircraft's seven major airframe assemblies--including 98-ft.-long wing sets and an 84-ft.-long center fuselage--have been transported on schedule from a widely dispersed supplier network that includes three factories in Japan, two in Italy and major centers in Kansas and South Carolina (see p. 72).
But Boeing anticipated that getting those assemblies to the 787 factory this month to keep on schedule for first flight would require a lot of "travel work"--putting its own resources and personnel at the disposal of suppliers who have fallen behind. Travel work is regarded as a short-term fix as the supply network experiences teething pains.
The new aircraft's assembly process takes Boeing deeper into lean manufacturing efficiencies than any of its previous commercial programs. The process depends on much of the touch work traditionally undertaken on the final assembly line being done by suppliers before assemblies and components even reach Everett. But as production begins, some of that pre-assembly work is not yet being performed at the supplier level.
Vice President Scott Strode, who heads 787 development and production, acknowledges some early workmanship issues on the assemblies, but says they are normal for a new program. While managing fasteners in a tight supply market has been a challenge, one critical component not troubling Boeing is wiring harnesses. Produced by Labenal in Texas and Mexico, their quality has been high and deliveries on schedule, says Strode.
Still, not all the wiring has been installed on time and some systems will be behind. The upshot is that Boeing will have to do catch-up work after the airplane's rollout celebration in order to meet its first flight schedule in late August or early September. The rollout is ceremonial; first flight isn't. While Boeing remains confident that its flight test program remains on schedule, Strode emphasizes, "We will fly when it's ready, when it's safe to fly."
The first delivery to launch customer All Nippon Airways (ANA) is expected next May. Boeing will use three shifts to keep up with the 787's unprecedented demand--568 orders from 44 commercial customers in three years.
Six flight-test aircraft are to be built, plus one each for static and fatigue testing. The flight-test aircraft will be delivered to customers eventually, but ANA's delivery aircraft will be the seventh off the assembly line. That 787-8 is powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines. Rolls will power four of the flight-test aircraft and deliver 10 engines, including two spares. General Electric's GEnx will be used on the other two test aircraft. It delivers six engines, four for flight, plus two spares.
Aviation Week & Space Technology
05/28/2007, page 57
Printed headline: Post-Rollout Catch-Up
The 787's rollout on July 8 remains on schedule, but the aircraft's worldwide supply chain is likely to experience some opening-day jitters.
The aircraft's seven major airframe assemblies--including 98-ft.-long wing sets and an 84-ft.-long center fuselage--have been transported on schedule from a widely dispersed supplier network that includes three factories in Japan, two in Italy and major centers in Kansas and South Carolina (see p. 72).
But Boeing anticipated that getting those assemblies to the 787 factory this month to keep on schedule for first flight would require a lot of "travel work"--putting its own resources and personnel at the disposal of suppliers who have fallen behind. Travel work is regarded as a short-term fix as the supply network experiences teething pains.
The new aircraft's assembly process takes Boeing deeper into lean manufacturing efficiencies than any of its previous commercial programs. The process depends on much of the touch work traditionally undertaken on the final assembly line being done by suppliers before assemblies and components even reach Everett. But as production begins, some of that pre-assembly work is not yet being performed at the supplier level.
Vice President Scott Strode, who heads 787 development and production, acknowledges some early workmanship issues on the assemblies, but says they are normal for a new program. While managing fasteners in a tight supply market has been a challenge, one critical component not troubling Boeing is wiring harnesses. Produced by Labenal in Texas and Mexico, their quality has been high and deliveries on schedule, says Strode.
Still, not all the wiring has been installed on time and some systems will be behind. The upshot is that Boeing will have to do catch-up work after the airplane's rollout celebration in order to meet its first flight schedule in late August or early September. The rollout is ceremonial; first flight isn't. While Boeing remains confident that its flight test program remains on schedule, Strode emphasizes, "We will fly when it's ready, when it's safe to fly."
The first delivery to launch customer All Nippon Airways (ANA) is expected next May. Boeing will use three shifts to keep up with the 787's unprecedented demand--568 orders from 44 commercial customers in three years.
Six flight-test aircraft are to be built, plus one each for static and fatigue testing. The flight-test aircraft will be delivered to customers eventually, but ANA's delivery aircraft will be the seventh off the assembly line. That 787-8 is powered by Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines. Rolls will power four of the flight-test aircraft and deliver 10 engines, including two spares. General Electric's GEnx will be used on the other two test aircraft. It delivers six engines, four for flight, plus two spares.
The Rollout
Correspondence
BOEING DREAMING ON 787 PLAN
Aviation Week & Space Technology
04/23/2007, page 6
Mike O'Grady
Savannah, Ga.
I have every confidence that the Boeing 787-8 will be rolled out on July 8, since airworthiness is not an issue for rollout.
However, for first flight to occur in August, it is. Limit static testing and 10% of fatigue life testing must be completed prior to flight. Neither test rig is near completion, let alone started actual testing.
Credit: BOEING CONCEPT
With some recent programs, the time from first flight to certification has been more than two years (this has applied to the 747, 757, 767 and 777). Those aircraft have aluminum structures with conventional bleed air/hydraulic systems. The 787-8 has a composite structure and more electrical systems in lieu of bleed air/hydraulic ones. Such radical changes can only increase the certification time to probably closer to three years after first flight. Boeing executives were correct to call this aircraft the Dreamliner, because anyone who believes in this schedule is a dreamer.
BOEING DREAMING ON 787 PLAN
Aviation Week & Space Technology
04/23/2007, page 6
Mike O'Grady
Savannah, Ga.
I have every confidence that the Boeing 787-8 will be rolled out on July 8, since airworthiness is not an issue for rollout.
However, for first flight to occur in August, it is. Limit static testing and 10% of fatigue life testing must be completed prior to flight. Neither test rig is near completion, let alone started actual testing.
Credit: BOEING CONCEPT
With some recent programs, the time from first flight to certification has been more than two years (this has applied to the 747, 757, 767 and 777). Those aircraft have aluminum structures with conventional bleed air/hydraulic systems. The 787-8 has a composite structure and more electrical systems in lieu of bleed air/hydraulic ones. Such radical changes can only increase the certification time to probably closer to three years after first flight. Boeing executives were correct to call this aircraft the Dreamliner, because anyone who believes in this schedule is a dreamer.
Welcome to the forum TWAbrat.
Your news is interesting, and is more or less confirmed by J.P.Morgan, who are quoting un-named sources within the Boeing supply chain that EIS will be four months late, but if your data is correct, maybe 4 months is a bit optimistic.
The thing I have never been able to understand is why Boeing set themselves such a tight schedule. They were and are so far ahead of the Airbus offering, they could have comfortably given themselves an extra twelve months for the programme, and no-one would have complained.
As it is, if these reports and your information is true, there are going to be enormous delivery penalty implications right down the supply chain, which could make the viability of some of them a little fragile.
Cheers
Achace
Your news is interesting, and is more or less confirmed by J.P.Morgan, who are quoting un-named sources within the Boeing supply chain that EIS will be four months late, but if your data is correct, maybe 4 months is a bit optimistic.
The thing I have never been able to understand is why Boeing set themselves such a tight schedule. They were and are so far ahead of the Airbus offering, they could have comfortably given themselves an extra twelve months for the programme, and no-one would have complained.
As it is, if these reports and your information is true, there are going to be enormous delivery penalty implications right down the supply chain, which could make the viability of some of them a little fragile.
Cheers
Achace
Hindsight is 20/20. Think back about 3-4 years ago. Airbus was flying high with excitement over the A380, the A320s were selling great (still are), and Airbus was surpassing Boeing in both orders and deliveries. Boeing's Sonic Cruiser was a bust, their CEO's Condit and then Stonecipher were forced out scandalously, and Boeing was facing criminal charges over the Air Force tanker contract and industrial espionage in the Air Force launch vehicle sector.
The mentality at Boeing when it launched the 787 was one of urgency and survival. They must have felt like they had act swiftly on the 787 before the competition responds. Hence, they were aggressive in their schedule.
Right now, Airbus needs that same lean and hungry mentality.
The mentality at Boeing when it launched the 787 was one of urgency and survival. They must have felt like they had act swiftly on the 787 before the competition responds. Hence, they were aggressive in their schedule.
Right now, Airbus needs that same lean and hungry mentality.
By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly an airplane?
wings are being put on :
http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/
does it look cool or does it look cool ?
http://bp2.blogger.com/_9PoYPYFFn4Y/RnA ... 87wing.jpg
http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/
does it look cool or does it look cool ?
http://bp2.blogger.com/_9PoYPYFFn4Y/RnA ... 87wing.jpg
Re: The Rollout
The Boeing 777 first flew on June 14 1994 and was awarded ETOPS 180 certification on May 30 1995. This is less then one year from first flight to certification. If the 787 flies in August or September, I can see it being certified by July or August of 2008. That is of course if everything goes well.TWAbrat wrote: With some recent programs, the time from first flight to certification has been more than two years (this has applied to the 747, 757, 767 and 777). Those aircraft have aluminum structures with conventional bleed air/hydraulic systems. The 787-8 has a composite structure and more electrical systems in lieu of bleed air/hydraulic ones. Such radical changes can only increase the certification time to probably closer to three years after first flight. Boeing executives were correct to call this aircraft the Dreamliner, because anyone who believes in this schedule is a dreamer.
Just to let everyone know, a good friend at Boeing Everett tells me everything is put together and fits perfectly. engines are to be hung this week, and roll out is right on schedule.
The usual doom and gloom sources are again wrong!
She fly's soon.
The usual doom and gloom sources are again wrong!
She fly's soon.
There are no strangers in the world, just friends we have yet to meet.
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cageyjames
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smokejumper
- Posts: 1033
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- Location: Northern Virginia USA
Re: The Rollout
We'll just have to wait and see how long the certification program takes. Boeing's reputation is at stake and if they greatly miss the delivery date, their planning process will be questioned - possibly even the concept of the 787. I am confident that the company planned the flight test program carefully; but uncertainties always rise.TWAbrat wrote:Correspondence
BOEING DREAMING ON 787 PLAN
Aviation Week & Space Technology
04/23/2007, page 6
Mike O'Grady
Savannah, Ga.
I have every confidence that the Boeing 787-8 will be rolled out on July 8, since airworthiness is not an issue for rollout.
However, for first flight to occur in August, it is. Limit static testing and 10% of fatigue life testing must be completed prior to flight. Neither test rig is near completion, let alone started actual testing.
Credit: BOEING CONCEPT
With some recent programs, the time from first flight to certification has been more than two years (this has applied to the 747, 757, 767 and 777). Those aircraft have aluminum structures with conventional bleed air/hydraulic systems. The 787-8 has a composite structure and more electrical systems in lieu of bleed air/hydraulic ones. Such radical changes can only increase the certification time to probably closer to three years after first flight. Boeing executives were correct to call this aircraft the Dreamliner, because anyone who believes in this schedule is a dreamer.
An interesting tidbit from the Seattle times is that United and American will order the 787-3. I have wondered about the future of that version.
Only the two Japanese airlines ordered it so far, though it seems like a real winner if you have the routes for it.
You can see why Boeing came out with the –8 first, then the –9, the –3 so fare is more of a niche market, though possibly a very nice one, with no competition.
Only the two Japanese airlines ordered it so far, though it seems like a real winner if you have the routes for it.
You can see why Boeing came out with the –8 first, then the –9, the –3 so fare is more of a niche market, though possibly a very nice one, with no competition.
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smokejumper
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Maybe it’s the following factors.
The US has mostly sat this order cycle out, and those are just staring to come in.
International flights make more money, so that’s where the investment is going.
Local flights are going more to frequency and low cost carriers, and the market has changes a lot since the DC-10.
The US has mostly sat this order cycle out, and those are just staring to come in.
International flights make more money, so that’s where the investment is going.
Local flights are going more to frequency and low cost carriers, and the market has changes a lot since the DC-10.
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Gliderpilot
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Last edited by Gliderpilot on 26 Jun 2007, 12:31, edited 1 time in total.
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speedbird1
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smokejumper
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787-10
Paris Air Show 2007 - AWST
For 787-10, It's Only A Matter of When
Boeing feels no pressure to launch double-stretched 787-10, but it's coming
Boeing's push-back of a potential service entry date for the 787-10 by a year is an ironic endorsement that the as-yet-unlaunched second stretch of the new jet is on its way.
Boeing Vice President and 787 General Manager Mike Bair says the earliest the 300-plus-seat 787-10 will enter service is 2013, a year later than previously forecast.
For 787-10, It's Only A Matter of When
Boeing feels no pressure to launch double-stretched 787-10, but it's coming
Boeing's push-back of a potential service entry date for the 787-10 by a year is an ironic endorsement that the as-yet-unlaunched second stretch of the new jet is on its way.
Boeing Vice President and 787 General Manager Mike Bair says the earliest the 300-plus-seat 787-10 will enter service is 2013, a year later than previously forecast.
787 fastener shortage makes for an unpleasant picture?
Paris Air Show 2007 - AWST
Boeing Vows To Do What's Needed to Keep 787 On Time
Even as it scrambles for first flight, Boeing continues to write big 787 orders
Boeing expects to have 42 aircraft parked outside its 787 final assembly building in Everett, Wash., by the time the 250-seat jet achieves certification next spring and delivery in May to its launch customer, All Nippon Airways.
Despite that optimism, the company has learned that an industry-wide fastener shortage makes for an unpleasant picture.
Boeing Vows To Do What's Needed to Keep 787 On Time
Even as it scrambles for first flight, Boeing continues to write big 787 orders
Boeing expects to have 42 aircraft parked outside its 787 final assembly building in Everett, Wash., by the time the 250-seat jet achieves certification next spring and delivery in May to its launch customer, All Nippon Airways.
Despite that optimism, the company has learned that an industry-wide fastener shortage makes for an unpleasant picture.