BA wide-body order in 2007

teach · Post by **teach** » 26 Sep 2007, 19:00

Fly4hours.be

What you write there is completely unrealistic. The order will be for a maximum of about 50 aircraft, you've got 110 there. Sorry, not going to happen.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 26 Sep 2007, 19:24

The order is expected for around 100 aircraft in total, for an amount of 15 billion dollar.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 367214.ece

The flightglobal article you are referring to is for the long-haul order, 50 aircraft.
Well, as you can see, the only long-haul aircraft on my list are the A380 and the A350 for a total of 55.
I don't think BA will consider the B787 as a long-haul as it isn't really profitable to operate a 250 pax aircraft on a 7000nm route from LHR where the slots are very expensive...

That's also why they say that the B787/A350 are different products, just like SIA who ordered both.

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 26 Sep 2007, 19:42

I don't think BA will order the 380 in great quantities, and for sure not the -900 version. If airbus was willing to launch the -900, they would have done it with Emirates...
A 747-8 is almost a certainty, as is the 787, BA is operating 767's with 180 seats and fits in their needs, so why not the 787-8? The smallest 350 is way too big (50+seats) for 767 replacement.

teach · Post by **teach** » 26 Sep 2007, 21:55

The order is expected for around 100 aircraft in total, for an amount of 15 billion dollar.

Well, that squarely contradicts anything BA has said about the order. BA has always said the order was as a replacement for about 20 747-400s, and their long-haul 767s. That's a maximum of 50 aircraft. They will not order 85 widebodies next week. And you can bet they count the 787 as a long-haul aircraft.

Desert Rat · Post by **Desert Rat** » 27 Sep 2007, 08:25

BRITISH AIRWAYS TO BUY 12 AIRBUS A380 AIRCRAFT FOR LONG HAUL FLEET

British Airways will buy 12 Airbus A380 aircraft as part of the airlines’ long term fleet modernisation. The announcement marks the first time British Airways has selected to introduce Airbus aircraft for the company’s long haul fleet. The decision vindicates Airbus’ product strategy. The A380 is a key part of the solution for sustainable growth and eco efficiency in air transportation.

The aircraft will be powered by Rolls-Royce engines.

“The Airbus A380 will provide a great solution for our high density markets and get the most out of scarce London Heathrow slots. We said that environmental considerations would feature highly in our choice and our decision to buy these aircraft is consistent with this”, said Willie Walsh, British Airways Chief Executive.

“British Airways’ decision is another breakthrough for our flagship Airbus A380. After an intensive year-long competitive evaluation British Airways’ choice is proof our product is the right aircraft to tackle growth, airport capacity constraints as well as environmental concerns. We are delighted British Airways will be flying Airbus aircraft for the first time on their long haul routes”, said Tom Enders, Airbus CEO.

Being greener, cleaner, quieter and smarter, the A380 is already setting new standards for transport and the environment. The aircraft is the most fuel efficient aircraft flying today. The combination of extra passenger capacity without increasing the number of flights, excellent environmental performance and lower operating costs is an ideal solution for the airports and the airlines that serve them.

For passengers, the A380 offers wider, more comfortable seats in all classes and the quietest cabins in the sky. Its unique double-deck wide body architecture also gives airlines flexibility to economically offer improved comfort standards without reducing fleet capacity. To current standards for larger premium class products, the A380 can typically carry 525 passengers in three classes in unprecedented comfort on flights of over 8000 nm (15 000km).

British Airways first became an Airbus operator in 1988, when it began flying A320s. The airline added the A319s to its fleet in 1999 and the A321 in 2004. British Airways currently operate a total of 68 A320 family aircraft.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 27 Sep 2007, 08:38

British Airways has today placed an order for 12 Airbus A380 and 24 Boeing 787 aircraft with options for a further seven Airbus A380s and18 Boeing 787s

I'm a good fleet advisor ain't I?

British Airways will continue to consider the most suitable aircraft to replace its remaining B747-400 aircraft and is examining the B787-10, B777-300 ER and A350XWB.

B787-10 is too small, the B773 is no competition to the XWB in regards to efficiency.
The question is when will this order be announced?

BA has always said the order was as a replacement for about 20 747-400s, and their long-haul 767s.

Yeah but if BA wants to keep its fleet average age low, they're gonna need to replace the other 36 B744's within the next 10 years. And seen that many airlines are ordering the XWB, they've got to hurry if they want to get in the line.
Also, there were going to be 2 major orders, of which, today's is the first one.
Maybe the next one will be at Farnborough? Ideal timing for BA...

David747 · Post by **David747** » 27 Sep 2007, 08:40

Or maybe BA will order 12 A380's and 24 787's....oh wait they did...

http://tinyurl.com/2wlftu

A350XWB · Post by **A350XWB** » 27 Sep 2007, 09:25

No good news for the 747-8I....orphan

achace · Post by **achace** » 27 Sep 2007, 09:31

I guess champagne in both camps today, but some hard questions on the future of the 748I.

Dixon of QANTAS gave that one the kiss of death!

We were all a bit out on the size of the order, obviously something to follow.

IMO they will order the XWB-10.

The new thrust requirements just announced may have caused a delay while Airbus sort out new guarantees.

Cheers
Achace

A350XWB · Post by **A350XWB** » 27 Sep 2007, 09:59

Boeing Statement on British Airways Fleet Selection

Boeing looks forward to finalizing the contractual details of British Airways' selection.

BA CEO says felt no political pressure in Airbus choice

http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessN ... 2120070927

There was absolutely none," Walsh told reporters when asked whether political pressure had been exerted. "There was no contact, be it formal or informal. The decision was made in the best interest of British Airways. In the engines, the choice of Rolls Royce was because British is best."

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 27 Sep 2007, 15:58

the choice of Rolls Royce was because British is best

Well, if that's true, why did BA order the GE90 for its first batch of B777s? Sure, they switched to RR later, but what's that about on that first batch? BA is definitely a RR loyalist, even their B767-300s use RR engines, which is very rare for the type.

Wonder what routes the BA A380 will be used on?
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... dates.html

I have to say it looks good with BA color on B787 and A380! It's interesting that they're going to replace the B744 fleet with two types of aircrafts.

teach · Post by **teach** » 27 Sep 2007, 20:12

I'm a good fleet advisor ain't I?

Well, you said they'd buy 85 widebodies, and they bought 36, so...

CX · Post by CX » 28 Sep 2007, 04:31

CXRules wrote:
the choice of Rolls Royce was because British is best
Well, if that's true, why did BA order the GE90 for its first batch of B777s? Sure, they switched to RR later, but what's that about on that first batch? BA is definitely a RR loyalist, even their B767-300s use RR engines, which is very rare for the type.

Wonder what routes the BA A380 will be used on?
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... dates.html

I have to say it looks good with BA color on B787 and A380! It's interesting that they're going to replace the B744 fleet with two types of aircrafts.

Well they are replacing both 744 and 767s, so it's not like 787s are replacing 767s.
This is as expected imo, 787 is the best replacement for 767, the XWB-8 is too big for 767s already and more importantly they will get it a few years sooner. The next batch to replace the remainning 744s will be different though, maybe more A380s and XWBs if what Boeing offers is again the the 773ER and 787-10. With the XWB changing to composite frame, it must be much more competitive now.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 28 Sep 2007, 06:49

the choice of Rolls Royce was because British is best

Well, if that's true, why did BA order the GE90 for its first batch of B777s

Rolls-Royce engines have excellent records until now, I agree, but the choice for BA should be motivated by other conveniences too: easy to get spare parts, RR maintenance, pricing,... If you have an engine manufacturer in your country that happens to make great engines, why not choose it?

And I think they went GE90 in the beginning because there was no RR version with the ETOPS-180 (Engine turns or pax swim) rating, only the GE and the PW but I'm not sure.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 28 Sep 2007, 07:55

tsv wrote:Not even BA is stupid enough to order the 748, which is just mutton dressed up as lamb. Or as Geoff Dixon puts it - "tarted up old tech aircraft".

The contest between the 787 and A350 is much fairer and more interesting.

I say old boy, you really need to keep a better perspective.

Dixon is a jerk. (ok, that’s bad perspective, but I think accurate).

The 747-8 is not for everyday, but it does have a niche, and I hate to tell you, the A380 is simply a derivative of that same old tarted up technology, which is at the end of its life. Keep in mind that nothing touches the "old tarted up technology " as an air freighter (dang, that pesky high tech A380 lost what few sales it had to that "old tart". (well to be fair, half went to the 747-400 which is even older tartier technology) and the other half went to that tarted up old technology 777 (Dixon doesn't like it either by the way, even though its sold rather well). Dixon would only be happy is someone made a special aircraft just for him. I wish him the best of luck of course (maybe the Chinese will take a shot at it).

However, the mega wide body market is thin for pax. And, by the way, Boeing has sold 20 of the pax version of the 747-8 (and oops, there’s another 20 options too). Well, I guess you have to admit that its hard to beat a good tart.

The A350 and the 787 are two different categories of aircraft, despite what that "tarted up old salesmen " for Airbus says. If you watch the figures, you will see the 787 selling like popcorn, and the A350 is like an old record with a scratch, (and it goes something like, "we will not redesign, skip, we will not redesign, skip, we will not redesign).

That said, I think BA made a logical decision to get the A380. It suits their route needs as well as London end restrictions. 12 more of the birds still leaves the A380 about 300 aircraft away from break even (and that’s in 8 years of being offered). Sometimes making the biggest toy in the box is not the best thing for your company or shareholders.

Ooops, that new tarted up technology 787 sold 24 firm orders and 18 options.

Me, I think I would prefer to be Boeing than Airbus. A really really nice selling mid sized wide body. Their technology path is set for the next 20 years, and they can make any move they feel they need to counter anything Airbus does.

Of course this is all my own perspective, but I believe there’s a fair amount of reality expressed (even if somewhat sarcastically). But then, I guess I am old tarted up technology as well, though I was downright state of the art when I was born. .

CX · Post by CX » 28 Sep 2007, 09:14

Well, BA was the airline that everyone thought would favour the 748I and they did not get it... you might say it's 'logical' that they got the A380 because they did, but it shows the 748I isn't that competitive. just admit it RC20.. i think 748I orders will come, but certainly won't be in big numbers anymore, 748F may continue to sell well though.

btw, don't call anyone a jerk juz because they dont' like a plane by Boeing please.

achace · Post by **achace** » 28 Sep 2007, 09:18

I dont think RC20 and I see eye to eye on 748, but I agree that the BA A380 order, although very nice for an old pom like me, is very much like second prize in a beaty contest.

Cheers
Achace

A350XWB · Post by **A350XWB** » 28 Sep 2007, 10:49

listen to ...interview (audio ) Boeing's Scott Carson on BA's choice of A380

Boeing commercial boss Scott Carson says British Airways choice of the A380 over the 747-8 is a disappointment but not a setback for the program, and he expects additional 747-8 Intercontinental orders to come, though not this year.
In an interview, Carson also talked about the 777-300ER, saying he believes BA will order the plane after a further evaluation of the A350.
Read my follow-up story on the British Airways announcement.
Listen to Carson's comments below. (About two minutes.)

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aero ... 122666.asp

As to the 777's future, he said that BA had deferred the decision only because Airbus' A350 is not ready to be evaluated. In the next 18 months, he said, Boeing will constantly improve the 777, already "the best twin-aisle, long-haul airplane in the world

In a conference call, BA's Walsh made clear that it's not just a matter of waiting for the detailed Airbus A350 specifications. He also wants those Boeing improvements to the 777."We're down to looking for greater clarity from both Boeing and Airbus," he said. "There's more work to be done on that."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ing28.html
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A350XWB · Post by **A350XWB** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:00

BA's decision to go with the A380 will now convince other airlines operating similar services to also buy the A380 (expect orders from Cathay Pacific

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 543652.ece

your opinion

David747 · Post by **David747** » 28 Sep 2007, 12:26

BA's order of the A380 shows that the program is a viable one, unlike the many critics who said it wasn't. Now that BA is on board with the A380, how long will it take for others to make a similar investment on the Superjumbo. As far as the 747-8 is concern, I have to agree with RC-20, the plane has a niche in the market, but one that is very limited, especially since the A380 could offer about the same amount of seating the 747-8 does at lower fuel burn. If anything, the BA order is a win for both Airbus and Boeing and their long term market perspective. As others have said, both companies are somewhat correct when it comes to their new products. The A380 will serve large hubs, while the 787 will be used for P2P travel.