Spotting on soundwall of EBBR will be over & out

SN_fan · Post by **SN_fan** » 20 Jan 2006, 19:56

some things you could do

-start an sort of "comité" that will represent the BRUspotters. So that you will have one voice and that there isn't an argue between spotters so that you don't lose your credibilty

- Have some good propositions( spotter location, badge, maybe course which what's allowed what not)

-Talk to the media, but think very well how you will present it, so it isn't news that after 5 seconds everyone has forgotten. Have some strong staements.

- But first try to negotiate with biac first.

-Biac is still 30 % of the goverment and Mr vandenbosche is still president of he board. So if you know someone (via via) who can do a good word. SP.A politics or member of a service club who has connections .

Just some Ideas ...

burner737 · Post by **burner737** » 20 Jan 2006, 20:02

SN_fan wrote:some things you could do

-start an sort of "comité" that will represent the BRUspotters. So that you will have one voice and that there isn't an argue between spotters so that you don't lose your credibilty

- Have some good propositions( spotter location, badge, maybe course which what's allowed what not)

-Talk to the media, but think very well how you will present it, so it isn't news that after 5 seconds everyone has forgotten. Have some strong staements.

- But first try to negotiate with biac first.

-Biac is still 30 % of the goverment and Mr vandenbosche is still president of he board. So if you know someone (via via) who can do a good word. SP.A politics or member of a service club who has connections .

Just some Ideas ...

I like your idea !!!
We should do those steps ...

(everyone who has Msn can add me if they won't to talk a bit more about this matter aswell)

Regards Tim

burner737 · Post by **burner737** » 20 Jan 2006, 20:04

Address is Tim_de_Meijer@hotmail.com

Regards Tim

vliegtuigfreak · Post by **vliegtuigfreak** » 20 Jan 2006, 20:22

I like SN_fan's idea. I'm in when the Brussels spotters want to realise this idea.

Greetingzz
Sonny

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 20 Jan 2006, 22:14

Wait a minute guys !! We don't know the real reason yet why they closed down that spot.

I'm still convinced it's not because we "could" be a threat to the planes....
I rather think that they find this spot too dangerous from a safety point of view. Look at the wall when the weather is nice. You'll always see people climbing on the wall !!! It's very dangerous.

I'm pretty sure it's because of that they closed down the spot. Don't forget we are closer to the action at other locations which are still open.

And if that's true it's even more sad. Because it's the spotters themselves who ruined that location !!!!

Give them a badge like staff (Offcourse this would cost the spotter some 52 euro I think or even more) . So they are screened by the "staatsveiligheid" and that biac know that they are honest spotter and not al qaeda members.

What ?? A badge to get on the wall ? What a lot of money it would cost to pay a person to screen guys going on the wall ? Or do you mean a badge to go inside the perimeter of the airport ? If yes ! It's even more unlikely. Imagine all people inside that perimeter !! It would become a play ground.

Oh and BTW the spotters should also do some efforts before raising there voice!! Did you see all the litter that's always lying around the spots in BRU ? I think we should first make sure we behave as adults before raising our voice. Then we might have a chance.

And no I'm not trying to be against spotters. I'm one myself, but I'm just realistic.

Chris

Glider · Post by **Glider** » 20 Jan 2006, 23:15

Avro wrote: I'm still convinced it's not because we "could" be a threat to the planes....

I really do agree with Chris on this one. Planes come close at that spot, and even though, the spot stayed open for quite a long time... And I also think it's because of the security of people climbing on the wall, and creating dangerous situation. The spot at the asylum centre for example, is also close to the planes. But... there's no wall to climb on...

Avro wrote: Did you see all the litter that's always lying around the spots in BRU ? I think we should first make sure we behave as adults before raising our voice. Then we might have a chance.

Another time quite right, Chris. Some extra info on my spotting trips. People sometimes ask me why I come with such a big rucksack. Well, I can tell you, all the waste I take with me to put in a garbage container, is quite voluminous...
By saying this, I only mean it's a VERY small gesture to keep your waste with you, or to put it in a container a bit further. Only these kind of small things could be noted by responsible organizations, such as BIAC, after some time. BRU is their airport, and maybe BIAC or whatever other organization doesn't like the sound of this, but BRU is also 'ours'!

Avro wrote: And no I'm not trying to be against spotters. I'm one myself, but I'm just realistic.

I can really understand your point of view, Chris. I must admit there's nothing else that I like more than 'my' airplanes (except for volleyball, but that's something else...).

I must say I was also a bit 'shocked' when I read the article of the closure of 'the wall'. I felt also the immediate need for action. I still do, but it has to be realistic. If it is, I'm definitely in; that's for sure!

Gladko · Post by **Gladko** » 20 Jan 2006, 23:41

The smartest thing they could have done is to place the fence on top of the hill, so the fence prevented from falling down. It sure is a very dangerous place, e.g. few months ago I saw some children playing on the hill at the back side of the concrete. Parents should watch their children, but what if one child had fallen down ? They sure would have blamed BIAC...

Introducing badges for spotters is a bad idea. What if some foreign spotters come to Brussels ? Or suppose the idea of badges is introduced in Schiphol, Charles De Gaulle, Heathrow, ... ? It would be very difficult for us then...

stevie · Post by **stevie** » 21 Jan 2006, 10:33

hay all

can't we do any acton like "60 000 people love their airport job"?

It can works

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 21 Jan 2006, 11:11

Maybe we can ask the members of BIAC on this site why the put a fence at the soundwall.

burner737 · Post by **burner737** » 21 Jan 2006, 11:56

Avro wrote: Oh and BTW the spotters should also do some efforts before raising there voice!! Did you see all the litter that's always lying around the spots in BRU ? I think we should first make sure we behave as adults before raising our voice. Then we might have a chance.
Chris

The garbage I have I always take it home with me or if there are refuse bins, I use them ... And I think every real spotter does the same !!!

And yes stevie we should take some action, the only question is how ?

And there's another thing !!! As we all know spotters in Belgium are not popular with the airport authorities. As we see the difference between our german and dutch friends ... They geth facilities !!! And maybe the time is there that we should raise our voice for once. Because It's also our airport ... The people against the airport are raising their voice all the time and government listens to them !!! So maybe IF we take action they'll listen to us !!!

Regards Tim

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 21 Jan 2006, 12:06

burner737 wrote:
Avro wrote: Oh and BTW the spotters should also do some efforts before raising there voice!! Did you see all the litter that's always lying around the spots in BRU ? I think we should first make sure we behave as adults before raising our voice. Then we might have a chance.
Chris
The garbage I have I always take it home with me or if there are refuse bins, I use them ... And I think every real spotter does the same !!!

I don't say that you are throwing garbage on the ground. But believe me I've seen it many times that spotters (not one-time spotters but real ones) throw garbage on the ground. And I find it unacceptable. If you want BIAC and the authorities to respect our hobby, we should start to respect them as well, by showing them that we can park our cars without being a danger on the road and by throwing our litter away in bins.

Chris

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 21 Jan 2006, 13:17

The rubbish is mostly thrown there by visitors. We, foreign BRU-spotters, know that when throwing our rubbish at BRU we'll get the bill for it one day.

I don't say ALL the rubbish is dropped by "visitors", but it's a lot!

Gladko · Post by **Gladko** » 21 Jan 2006, 13:26

It is true that most garbage is thrown by visitors, but nevertheless and, unfortunately, there are still some spotters who do the same. The only thing we can do about it is tell it to them when we see them throwing their garbage away.

I also think that one of the major decisions to close the wall is the fact that there were a lot of people parking their vehicle in front of the wall, where it is forbidden. These people were in almost every case only visitors, no spotters. But it is always the same, those people come here only once or twice a year, and the spotters have to pay the bill....

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 21 Jan 2006, 15:51

Be realistic people.

1) it's a year or two that we use the soundwall to spot. It was indeed, the best spottingplace at our airport, but before we used - and are using - the current places like watertower, sandhills, etc.

2) don't blame always the visitors. Some of the spotters are indeed made from those places garbage belts. The wooden pallets, when they construct the way, are used to climb on the wall.

2) It's indeed forbidden to park along the street but that's also at the watertower and there are no fences. Most people who park there are indeed visitors.

So you can ask why they are putting there a fence? Complains of habitants? Was this spottingplace the best place to forbid?

If you want to get some answers on that you have to ask it first at BIAC before doing something else what your changes can turn in the wrong way. But honestly, I don't think that BIAC will listen to this. Have they first ask to the spotters if they are agree to put a fence at the soundwall? I don't think so. There is no communication like in holland. Before they are doing something the talk to each other.

Creating a spottersplace. Who will pay for that? And guaranteed we will get some reactions of habitants about more traffic, noise, etc. That's not what we want. Look at holland. During the holidays a lot of people come to those places.

Don't get it wrong, I don't want to be pessimistic, but we have to see it realistic. And I think that the first reactions are always very hard, and there is need to take some actions, etc but after some days it's a lot cool down.

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 22 Jan 2006, 10:44

" Oh, no, people are having fun, we can't have that!"

Biac quote.

They can just build a small dirt or gravel parking lot someplace there, thats not
expensive.

I just sent a question, they'll reply to me soon, they said.

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 22 Jan 2006, 11:12

fokker_f27 wrote:"Oh, no, people are having fun, we can't have that!" Quote BIAC

Imagine: certain managers of the BIAC management read his topic, and come across stupidities like the above sentence, fokker_f27. Do you REALLY think that insulting BIAC is a solution!? How would you react if you read this?

Whenever I'm near whatever spot around the airport, I see visitors AND spotters do the most stupid things. Some people need to learn what the word 'responsibility' means.

Some replies in this topic are laughable, and won't have any positive influence to improve the spotting situation at BRU whatsoever.

Exactly the same situation when the 8th floor was closed, I hope that Mr Kevin Van Bunnen is still enjoying his 35000+ hits: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/862260/L/

And now it's probably BIAC's fault why the 8th floor was closed?

A small minority doesn't have any responsibility, and the majority of the spotters feel the consequences.

Frederic

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 22 Jan 2006, 11:41

fokker_f27 wrote:" Oh, no, people are having fun, we can't have that!"

Biac quote.

They can just build a small dirt or gravel parking lot someplace there, thats not
expensive.

I just sent a question, they'll reply to me soon, they said.

Did you read my post very carefully. I don't think so. Shooting at BIAC is the last thing you can do. Why? Because this is the only party were we have to negociate with. So in that case i'm very worried about your mail to BIAC, because people send those things in a wave of anger. That's why in many cases the ships are destroyed before the battle begins. If you want to take some action, it needs a very good foundation with some things who are realistic.

Post by **Bottie** » 22 Jan 2006, 11:42

The 8th floor has nothing to do with the soundwall, and it is perfect understandable they made it impossible to make descent pics over there, it is/was 'authorized personnel only' over there, and they kind of allowed it to be there but since the 'Air Force One' affaire they changed that policy ...

About that wall, it's a pity it won't be possible to get there, but we don't know why they close it. Is it on request of some airlines because some of their pilots don't feel safe when all those people are up there, for the safety, maybe there are already some persons that haven been hurt because they climbed up the soundpanels ... we don't know. If it's 'on request' of some airlines, then we must understand BIAC chooses the side which makes the money.

Some say you are even closer at the refugee center, who says this place will remain? maybe they will place also a extra fence over there ... Be happy, it is still allowed at BRU, take a look to the recent changes at Paris, that's a lot worse

SN_Bigbirdy · Post by **SN_Bigbirdy** » 22 Jan 2006, 13:43

Bottie wrote:Some say you are even closer at the refugee center, who says this place will remain? maybe they will place also a extra fence over there ... Be happy, it is still allowed at BRU, take a look to the recent changes at Paris, that's a lot worse

Oh god, plz don't give them further ideas 8O 8O

Simon

Tommypilot · Post by **Tommypilot** » 22 Jan 2006, 13:47

A shame to hear this after the terrible news about CDG...

For me personally I am not surprised...like some members here already said it was quite predictable...

Making BIAC badges to use for spotting is a rather stupid idea in my opinion, and not realistic either. However it would solve a lot of problems (but maybe create a lot more too).

Shooting on one particular spotter who did make pictures about a special airplane on the 8th floor is not fair. There were many other people (also with pictures on a.net and other sites) who where standing there...are you going to blame them too...if I am right there are some members here as well of those people...
However I would never post a picture of that kinda airplane online but keep it just for myself. But yes Frederic, some people take pictures for the number of views...and some only to share some special photographs with other people.

For me personnaly its not the end I think. In fact what I heard...taking pictures of an airplane is an illegal act...so let us enjoy the few "places" we still have overhere...

Regards,