Qantas and Cathay expected to ink deals

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 02 Dec 2005, 17:25

As for the Airbus problem, their delay on A380 really hurt them.

I'm worried Boeing will have the same problems with the 787. That would be truly devastating.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 02 Dec 2005, 19:32

Well, for any new model, there is delay usually, from B747-400 to MD-11. The thing is you have to be honest and straight forward about it, not dancing around and keep your customers in the dark. If your customers didn't hear from you first, rather hearing the delay from the press first, you've got a PR problem.

Yet another article: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 81/1/.html

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 03 Dec 2005, 01:45

If your customers didn't hear from you first, rather hearing the delay from the press first, you've got a PR problem.

Very true!!! Is that what Airbus did!?!?!??!!? Wow. :shakehead:

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 03 Dec 2005, 04:23

Airbus has certainly committed some serious Faux Pas's over the last few months, and in the process have alienated many present and possible future customers.

Insulting customers, being less than truthful, failing miserably to communicate with its customers, are just a few of the many.

In the eyes of the customers Airbus at times has been less than forthcoming, and have gone over the line when they made statements about Boeing. This kind of behaviour certainly does not gain them any favour with customers, and has lowered their stature and trust level.

They have a long uphill battle to regain the respect of customers.

ryanCX · Post by **ryanCX** » 03 Dec 2005, 13:17

bits44 wrote:Airbus has certainly committed some serious Faux Pas's over the last few months, and in the process have alienated many present and possible future customers.

Insulting customers, being less than truthful, failing miserably to communicate with its customers, are just a few of the many.

In the eyes of the customers Airbus at times has been less than forthcoming, and have gone over the line when they made statements about Boeing. This kind of behaviour certainly does not gain them any favour with customers, and has lowered their stature and trust level.

They have a long uphill battle to regain the respect of customers.

Yea... they have been very inconsiderate about their statements about Boeing... I personally liked them

I guess others didn't find it as funny

CX · Post by CX » 03 Dec 2005, 17:26

Their soonest chance to regain this is with the A380... Hopefully SIA will be happy with it and that the plane meets its standards, or else what can they do? spend another lump of money to modify the beast?

PYX · Post by **PYX** » 03 Dec 2005, 18:02

CX wrote:Their soonest chance to regain this is with the A380... Hopefully SIA will be happy with it and that the plane meets its standards, or else what can they do? spend another lump of money to modify the beast?

Not to worry. The "Consortium" will throw them a few more Billion Euros just like they did for the development of the A380 and, again, for the A350.

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 05 Dec 2005, 14:09

Cathay Pacific COO Tony Tyler stated today the Airline will not
be purchasing the A380 but will go with the 747-8 for future needs.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=3293

boeing797 · Post by **boeing797** » 05 Dec 2005, 14:35

Good news for Boeing. As small airlines cannot find capacities for such a huge A380 they would go for B747-8. Good to see 747 program go strong.

CP

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 05 Dec 2005, 15:17

Well, as much as I believe Cathay will go for B747-8, the article didn't say Cathay is sway one way or the other (A380 vs B747-8). All it said was Cathay will keep using the B747-400 for a while. At least that's how I interpret it.

Now it makes more sense. I was questioning some reports about Cathay's B777-300ER order were to replace B747-400. It's clear that the latest order is to mainly replace the A340's, which CX have 18 of them (they order 16 with 20 options plus three A330-300's, more than enough to replace the entire fleet of A340's).

CX · Post by CX » 07 Dec 2005, 06:55

That few lines does not say a single word that is against the A380 or for the 748... it simply tells that the 744s wont' be replaced any time soon... that is what it says, does not need intepretation unless the article has something hidden...

No idea what CX will replace their 744s with, but their order from Boeing looks like they are in favour of Boeing, but of course things can change very quickly, next step might be replacing the 772s with A350s, and then the big beast might come too

Also, like SIA, their A380s wont' seat too much more than their current 744, but much more comfort.. obviously SIA can keep the cost/seat of their A380 similar to their 744 or else they won't do this, so CX might do this too... Their Airline of the Year 2005 thing imo is a lot to do with the HK airport, their food(except the cup noodles), tight seating config. is quite crap to be honest...

Also, i don't think the new order is to fully replace the A340 because local news has said that CX's fleet, after the order, will expand and increase to ---(forgot number, but over 100) and includes the A340s... and that article said that the order was for 'new services/new destinations', not replacing old aircrafts..

Btw, any news on the QF order? it's today isn't it? I have a slight feeling Airbus might win this because this is a huge order thus long term delivery, which is good for the A345E/6E and the A350/A380...

ryanCX · Post by **ryanCX** » 07 Dec 2005, 11:52

If Qatar Airways, Etihad, Malaysia Airlines and THAI have ordered A380s, sure Cathay is large enough and has routes that can accomodate the 'beast'. Its just a matter of being profitable while flying it.

And, even if Cathay really is dissatisfied with the A340s as alleged earlier, I don't think it'd make sense in completely replacing them with the new B777ERs. They are still about 10 years old.

And lastly, so far, Cathay hasn't really favoured any manufacturer over the other... their fleet consists of both Airbus and Boeing aircrafts and so far the company hasn't shown any signs of preference of one over the other.

About Qantas, how old are their B767s? I really think they need to be replaced of all aircrafts. So, perhaps more A330s?

regi · Post by **regi** » 07 Dec 2005, 13:36

but Royal Brunei did a succesful revamp of their B767.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 07 Dec 2005, 15:57

Also, i don't think the new order is to fully replace the A340 because local news has said that CX's fleet, after the order, will expand and increase to ---(forgot number, but over 100) and includes the A340s... and that article said that the order was for 'new services/new destinations', not replacing old aircrafts..

The article made a mistake. Even without the order from last week, Cathay's fleet will expand to over 100 anyway. The article left out the four second-hand B747-400's coming in as BCF's or refitted passenger aircrafts, which will push the aircraft total over 100 by 2007.

The track record of Cathay shows that an order in this magnitude included both replacement and growth. They may not replace the entire A340's, but I think the leased A340's will be gone for sure. It really depends on the oil prices in the next few years and how many of the options will be converted to orders.

Cathay looks at each model on its own merit. They love the A330's and the 777-300's, but don't like the A340's and the B777-200's. And the A380's, it's clear Cathay will not order them in the near future, since the info is coming from Cathay's leadership. Cathay is a conservative airline, and they don't jump on the A380 simply because of pride. MAS and Thai are in financial problem right now, just FYI. The A380's consideration is not limited to just cost/seat, it must include factors like utilizations, cost of introducing a new model to the fleet, and does it fit Cathay's business plan. With Cathay focusing on more frequencies through its HKG hub for better and more connection choices for customers, A380 doesn't fit its strategy at this point.

Qantas: they will replace the entire B767's. After all, the 767's is an old model. A350 and B787 are still up in the air, 50/50, based on some reports.

CX · Post by CX » 07 Dec 2005, 16:14

Isn't 50/50 kinda not sensible if both planes serve the same purpose? QF has some A330s in service and some on order, it could be a tad cheaper to go the Airbus route...
Also it is just my thought that because the delivery of this order will be a very long term one, Airbus may be favoured more in this case because Airbus does have some much more competitive planes coming in after 2010, while the Boeing only has the 787 and 748 being fresh.. It makes sense for a split order of A350 and 787 because these 2 planes are quite different, 787 is more like A330 isn't it? But all the articles suggests the order is a full package.. Anyway, 7th December has past and why is there no news about this??

As for CX, the 773ER will replace the 3 leased A346s, but the leased A343s, do you really need a 773-->ER<-- to replace them with?

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 07 Dec 2005, 18:39

As for CX, the 773ER will replace the 3 leased A346s, but the leased A343s, do you really need a 773-->ER<-- to replace them with?

Yes, of course. The 777-300 doesn't have the range to fly long-haul. I can say that the Hong Kong-Toronto route is flown by A340-300, but Cathay would like a bigger plane for that, as well as non-stop instead of a technical stop in Anchorage. That's a daily flight that fit perfectly for B773ER. I can imagine they would like the 773ER on HK-Vancouver-New York route as well.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 07 Dec 2005, 20:33

Qantas indecision: http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/comm ... 62,00.html

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 08 Dec 2005, 03:47

Qantas has decided to delay a decision until next wednesday pending further review by the board.

http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/051208/15/3x41p.html

CX · Post by CX » 08 Dec 2005, 09:38

I think Airbus will get it this time, because no planes will be delivered until 2010... To me it's a no brainer Airbus win because by 2010 Airbus will have new aircrafts to perhaps bust the 777, but obviously Boeing recently is the one with better reputation..

http://au.biz.yahoo.com/051208/19/ett4.html

This article says SIA wants some more planes too, not sure if they are outdated or whether SIA does indeed want some A350/787...

CX · Post by CX » 08 Dec 2005, 14:51

Another article
http://www.flightinternational.com/Arti ... order.html

They think that the 777 will win over tha A340 while i think otherwise simply because no deliveries will start until 2010... Also i'm pretty sure they'll order some 783 or 788 while ordering A358 and A359, i mean you dont' need A350s to replace the trans-Tasman(Aus<->NZ) flights, A330 is more suitable but A330 hasn't been mentioned at all...