Airbus also is very active:
ALAFCO from Saudi Arabia orders 12 A350s
Jazeera Airways orders 6 additional A320s
Dubai Airshow: news, orders, speculations and opinions
Moderator: Latest news team
Hi all! kinda new here!
First off! Welcome to Luchtzak
Some things to consider in answer to your questions:
First: Cathay Pacific will not likely be ordering any A380,s I think they will probably be one of the first customers for the 747-8 due to economics.
Second: Emirates will probably get rid of their A340's fairly quickly, in fact for every 777 that arrives, you will probably see an A340 go. Why? economics, a twin engine aircraft is obviously cheaper to operate.
Despite regional favoritism and manufacturer allegiance, you have to think like an Airline when trying to rationalize why they do the things they do.
Its all economics, and if you read through the many postings in these forums you will see comparisons made on Aircraft, Training, fleet commonality, and many other factors which affect operational costs.
Because of the high cost of fuel, Airlines will go to extreme lengths to save money on operational costs, including stripping paint in Air Canada's case.
The operating costs of running an Airline are astronomical, they examine every penny of expense every day, and if they can save a dime on fuel costs they will do it. As the American carriers have shown, it makes no difference how big you are, you can go broke just as easy as the little guys.
Again! Welcome
KT
Let's take a look at some updates ...
Orders :
30 Airbus A320 for Kingfisher
7 Airbus A330 for ALAFCO
12 Airbus A350 for ALAFCO
10 Airbus A350 for TAP
20 ATR-72 for Kingfisher
70 Boeing B737 for China
80 Boeing B737 for CASGC
10 Boeing B777-200LR for Emirates
8 Boeing B777-200F for Emirates (Sky Cargo)
24 Boeing B777-300ER for Emirates
20 Boeing B787 for ILFC
Options :
6 Airbus A350 for ALAFCO
15 ATR-72 for Kingfisher
20 Boeing B777 for Emirates
4 Boeing B787 for ILFC
This brings an additional 49 orders and 10 options bringing the current stands to 291 orders + 45 options ! Good show if you as me ...
Greetz,
Andries
Orders :
30 Airbus A320 for Kingfisher 7 Airbus A330 for ALAFCO 12 Airbus A350 for ALAFCO 10 Airbus A350 for TAP 20 ATR-72 for Kingfisher 70 Boeing B737 for China 80 Boeing B737 for CASGC 10 Boeing B777-200LR for Emirates 8 Boeing B777-200F for Emirates (Sky Cargo) 24 Boeing B777-300ER for Emirates 20 Boeing B787 for ILFCOptions :
6 Airbus A350 for ALAFCO 15 ATR-72 for Kingfisher 20 Boeing B777 for Emirates4 Boeing B787 for ILFCThis brings an additional 49 orders and 10 options bringing the current stands to 291 orders + 45 options ! Good show if you as me ...
Greetz,
Andries Don't dream your life, live your dream !!!
May I add my opinions here?bits44 wrote:Hi all! kinda new here!
First off! Welcome to Luchtzak
Some things to consider in answer to your questions:
First: Cathay Pacific will not likely be ordering any A380,s I think they will probably be one of the first customers for the 747-8 due to economics.
Second: Emirates will probably get rid of their A340's fairly quickly, in fact for every 777 that arrives, you will probably see an A340 go. Why? economics, a twin engine aircraft is obviously cheaper to operate.
Despite regional favoritism and manufacturer allegiance, you have to think like an Airline when trying to rationalize why they do the things they do.
Its all economics, and if you read through the many postings in these forums you will see comparisons made on Aircraft, Training, fleet commonality, and many other factors which affect operational costs.
Because of the high cost of fuel, Airlines will go to extreme lengths to save money on operational costs, including stripping paint in Air Canada's case.
The operating costs of running an Airline are astronomical, they examine every penny of expense every day, and if they can save a dime on fuel costs they will do it. As the American carriers have shown, it makes no difference how big you are, you can go broke just as easy as the little guys.
Again! Welcome
KT
In the past B777 was very expensive due to hight cost of production. Airlines love it but the cost of ownership is too high. Since Boeing streamline the production of B777 its price is very competitive now. Plus the superior performence, B777 turns out to be A340 killer.
Thanks bit44 for in-depth analysis.
Ciao
Not exactly. Cathay operates 15 A340-300 (including 3 leased from Air China) and 3 A340-600 (all leased from ILFC), compared to 26 A330-300 (with 3 on order). It's known that Cathay is not happy with the A340's. If they do like them, they wouldn't just lease the A346 few years ago and actually bought them. Now that B777 offered similar (if not longer) range and the new 747-8 can fly HKG-JFK non-stop, bad news for A340.btw, shouldn't Cathay Pacific have a think about the new A346 too?? Afterall they have so many A340s in their fleet...
Cathay will not order A380 in the near future. Cathay is a conservative and economic-sound airline. In fact, one of the oldest private airline in Asia (never controlled by any government). I see them buying B747-8 soon as the oldest B747-400 reach 20 years by 2009-2010. Cathay is going for more frequencies for better connections through its hub in HKG. A380 can only be used in a few routes, not economical enough to fly them. Also, cargo is a big factor, and 747-8 is a better aircraft for cargo. The future of Cathay's fleet will be A330-300, B777-300 variants, and B747-8. I believe the A340's and the B777-200's will be slowly phased out over time (or at least no more orders for them).Btw, I wonder when Cathay Pacific wiil be ordering new A380s, I mean it has been established that A380s are the way to go for large capacity flights. Majority of its competitors have already ordered. I mean Cathay's 747s are still healthy and all but I really think having the new A380s in time is crucial, otherwise it may lose passengers just because of thier interest in the new super-jumbo.
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chornedsnorkack
- Posts: 428
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
They are, they just call them A350-800 and A350-900 rather than A330-500 and A330-600.CX wrote:CX will NOT be considering the A380 in the short term, i heard it from a friend who works at CX...
Well, the trend that a twin-engine aircraft is cheaper to operate leads me to think why Airbus is making new variants for the A340 but not the A330...
Of course, they are also taking opportunity to apply more enhancements - like a cross-section of thinner walls than A300/310/330/340.
Thanks for the warm welcome!
To be honest, I am quite skeptical about B747-8. I think Boeing have played their 747 card way too often. I remember years ago, Boeing announced B747-500 and 600 with all the technology from the B777s, but nothing like that ever flew. Now, this one, since it has been launched and all might fly but I doubt it will do better than A380.
However, I am forced to think that coming into the Dubai airshow, Boeing has a better range of products. I doubt if A380 will win anymore orders. I see A380 as more of a symbol of status of being a major airline at this point of time. That is why I thought Cathay would order a few. Now, the A380 has secured orders from most of the major airlines around the world except BA, Cathay, KLM and the American airlines (although I doubt if any American Airlines would order even if they were in sound economic position) I wonder if there are any airlines who would find sense in ordering the giant. And maybe, like bits44 said they are uneconomic.
The A350, I have to admit looks far inferior on paper to the 787s. Maybe Airbus should have waited a while to come up with something more solid to compete against B787 meanwhile launching a variant of the A330 that wouldn't have cost them as much.
And if it has been established that twin engines are the way to go, why spend on a new A340-600 when it has yet to even exceed 200 orders?
On Boeing's side, the strength seems to B777ERs. Economical with range adequate for most long range flights and with a size large enough to be replacing ageing B747-400 without compromising the frequency.
And one more thing, I'd like to get someone's opinion on the B777-200LR. My question, is there enough market for such an aircraft? I mean most of the ultra LR routes are already being served by A340-500/600s or B777-200ERs. For evidence, even the A340-500/600 didn't sell enough. I sold around 200 which isn't exactly mega-successful.
I personally see Boeing edging Airbus in Dubai, on the strength of the B777-300ER rather than the B747 or the B777LR.
To be honest, I am quite skeptical about B747-8. I think Boeing have played their 747 card way too often. I remember years ago, Boeing announced B747-500 and 600 with all the technology from the B777s, but nothing like that ever flew. Now, this one, since it has been launched and all might fly but I doubt it will do better than A380.
However, I am forced to think that coming into the Dubai airshow, Boeing has a better range of products. I doubt if A380 will win anymore orders. I see A380 as more of a symbol of status of being a major airline at this point of time. That is why I thought Cathay would order a few. Now, the A380 has secured orders from most of the major airlines around the world except BA, Cathay, KLM and the American airlines (although I doubt if any American Airlines would order even if they were in sound economic position) I wonder if there are any airlines who would find sense in ordering the giant. And maybe, like bits44 said they are uneconomic.
The A350, I have to admit looks far inferior on paper to the 787s. Maybe Airbus should have waited a while to come up with something more solid to compete against B787 meanwhile launching a variant of the A330 that wouldn't have cost them as much.
And if it has been established that twin engines are the way to go, why spend on a new A340-600 when it has yet to even exceed 200 orders?
On Boeing's side, the strength seems to B777ERs. Economical with range adequate for most long range flights and with a size large enough to be replacing ageing B747-400 without compromising the frequency.
And one more thing, I'd like to get someone's opinion on the B777-200LR. My question, is there enough market for such an aircraft? I mean most of the ultra LR routes are already being served by A340-500/600s or B777-200ERs. For evidence, even the A340-500/600 didn't sell enough. I sold around 200 which isn't exactly mega-successful.
I personally see Boeing edging Airbus in Dubai, on the strength of the B777-300ER rather than the B747 or the B777LR.
The most important factor in the upgrade from an ER to an LR is minimal cost, Qantas has been trying to get an aircraft that would fly non-stop from Sydney to London and vice-versa for years, and now they have one.And one more thing, I'd like to get someone's opinion on the B777-200LR. My question, is there enough market for such an aircraft? I mean most of the ultra LR routes are already being served by A340-500/600s or B777-200ERs. For evidence, even the A340-500/600 didn't sell enough. I sold around 200 which isn't exactly mega-successful.
They think they have a market for such an aircraft, and there no doubt will be others, again economics are a huge factor, stop over costs are eliminated, which can be huge, as well as fuel saved by not landing and taking off again.
Although there will be a limited market for this type, its not a giant leap to upgrade to the LR, and if a Airline is currently operating 340's I think you will see many operators change to the 777 purely for the economys to be gained in operating twin engine equipment.
KT
B747-8 will serve the market of planes with size between B777-300/A340-600 and A380. Some airlines will need planes of this size.ryanCX wrote:Thanks for the warm welcome!
To be honest, I am quite skeptical about B747-8. I think Boeing have played their 747 card way too often. I remember years ago, Boeing announced B747-500 and 600 with all the technology from the B777s, but nothing like that ever flew. Now, this one, since it has been launched and all might fly but I doubt it will do better than A380.
Boeing must launch B747-8, otherwise A380 will 100% dominate the market of jumbo planes. This can generate a lot of profits and allows Airbus to cut prices on other slow-selling models, thus enhances these models' competitiveness. Boeing surely doesn't want this happen. By launching B747-8 they keep Airbus in check.
Thanks Emirates
42 more 777's! All GE90-115! Now we will see the world's most powerful engine everywhere we go!
Now we just have to build em all!
Now we just have to build em all!
I don't think the A350 is simply an 'improvement' over the A330, it is totally new, it is differently sized.
I mean Airbus said they will keep the A330 in production for some 10 more years, already the A333 is killed by the 777s and 787s, so how the heck is the A333 going to be in production for 10 more years?? If they don't make a majorly improved A330, then Airbus better hurry up and get some more variants of the A350 out there soon!
I mean Airbus said they will keep the A330 in production for some 10 more years, already the A333 is killed by the 777s and 787s, so how the heck is the A333 going to be in production for 10 more years?? If they don't make a majorly improved A330, then Airbus better hurry up and get some more variants of the A350 out there soon!
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chornedsnorkack
- Posts: 428
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
A300 is in production even after A330 came out. So is A310, even though none have been produced for a long time. It makes sense if A330 remains in production...CX wrote:I don't think the A350 is simply an 'improvement' over the A330, it is totally new, it is differently sized.
I mean Airbus said they will keep the A330 in production for some 10 more years, already the A333 is killed by the 777s and 787s, so how the heck is the A333 going to be in production for 10 more years?? If they don't make a majorly improved A330, then Airbus better hurry up and get some more variants of the A350 out there soon!
Yes indeed, but only for A300F's ...chornedsnorkack wrote:
A300 is in production even after A330 came out. So is A310, even though none have been produced for a long time. It makes sense if A330 remains in production...
I have always been wondering why Airbus didn't create the A330F. To me it would make sense as it is more modern than the A300F and more fuel-economic.
Take for example the A330-200 which is about 4m longer than an A300F. The diffirence is that the A330-200F would be able to fly more than double the distance the A300F can ...
Maybe something to watch for in the future ... or perhaps a conversion-program like on the PAX A300's and B767's ...
Greetz,
Andries Don't dream your life, live your dream !!!
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chornedsnorkack
- Posts: 428
- Joined: 21 Oct 2005, 00:00
Would it be better to design a brand new 330F or design a brand new 350F?Andries wrote:Yes indeed, but only for A300F's ...chornedsnorkack wrote:
A300 is in production even after A330 came out. So is A310, even though none have been produced for a long time. It makes sense if A330 remains in production...
I have always been wondering why Airbus didn't create the A330F. To me it would make sense as it is more modern than the A300F and more fuel-economic.
Take for example the A330-200 which is about 4m longer than an A300F. The diffirence is that the A330-200F would be able to fly more than double the distance the A300F can ...
Maybe something to watch for in the future ... or perhaps a conversion-program like on the PAX A300's and B767's ...
Looks like a huge Cathay order is coming: http://www.flightinternational.com/Arti ... attle.html