I hope the government will still get to its sences. If they really don't accept the intercontinental flights with the MD-11 DHL will definietly leave. Come on, people in the neighbourhoud of Brussels, what are just 16 extra flights if you can save thousands of jobs with that? Nothing, so please accept it! I sometimes wonder if you would ask all the people around Brussels if they would reject the plan or not. Maybe it is just the government. Do they really want to get rit of all aviation business in Belgium? They arleady did a good job with Sabena and Sobelair. Now that a company wants to expand they are being so difficult. At the end this will just mean that another great airline will go away of Brussels.
What a pitty.
DHL expansion?
Moderator: Latest news team
I am surprised no aircraft manufacturer reacted on that: Airbus could have come up with some innovative ideas on that, even with a deal of providing jobs in the belgian aeronautical industries, what would have made a solution possible: Silent cargo planes partly built in Belgium.beaucaire wrote:Quoting Reuters English News Service 10/19/04
Belgium earlier wrote to DHL asking it to replace the MD-11 plane -- a derivative of the three-engined DC-10 airliner and the last long-range widebodied aircraft to be made by McDonnell Douglas -- with less noisy aircraft as soon as possible.
The government asked DHL to start using what it says are newer, quieter planes such as Boeing's B777 from 2011 to operate additional intercontinental flights.
No government could refuse that, could they?
Jobs at DHL,
jobs for Airbus in belgium, and quieter aircraft.
That no politician came up with such plan, or any other, gives a fair indication of what aeronautical expertise is involved in the political decision making.
Politicians, experts in nothing? Their plan was to create jobs? If that would not be a plan? (Both sides of the scale: baggage handlers and aviation techmicians, and both ends of the rainbow...)
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killerwhale65
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- Location: Deinze, Belgium
- Contact:
i wonder why they ask DHL to change its point of view, while the government keeps stubborn to her point of view?
If the government would have said, ok we will allow 6 instead of 4, this would maybe stimulate DHL to also lower its demands a bit, but now?
If the government would have said, ok we will allow 6 instead of 4, this would maybe stimulate DHL to also lower its demands a bit, but now?
Matthias Thoen
MicroWings - Aviation Hobby Store
MicroWings - Aviation Hobby Store
Expertise, no handclapping, killerwhale!
That's the way you sell a cow, killerwhale! With handclapping, that is not the expertise I am talking about......killerwhale65 wrote:i wonder why they ask DHL to change its point of view, while the government keeps stubborn to her point of view?
If the government would have said, ok we will allow 6 instead of 4, this would maybe stimulate DHL to also lower its demands a bit, but now?
My solution is a maximum of SILENT flights, with new technology aircraft. If possibly partially built in Belgium, creating jobs at the manufacturing side as well as the operation side @ DHL.
Because do not forget, the silent technology will be needed elsewhere in world, so any type of silent cargo aircraft will be a best seller.
Belgium could have pioneered in that.
Now I come to think, no politician, but no university, no analyst came up with that idea. Am I the only one with a perspective view? If so, indeed then belgian aviation is RIP.
When we are talking about silent aircraft there is maybe something you didn't have thought about. Early this year an Airbus A300F (OO-TZD) of TNT went to Airbus Toulouse for Stage IV engine testes. Do someone know what the results are form these test. If the results are good EAT (The operator of the Belgian based DHL aircrafts) can maybe provide its A300 fleet with this pack and reduce the total noise.
Greetz,
Dave
Greetz,
Dave
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EBAW_flyer
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 29 Sep 2003, 00:00
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TCAS_climb
- Posts: 413
- Joined: 04 Jan 2004, 00:00
Mind your words, Dave
Mind your words, Dave. The plural of test is tests.liebensd wrote:Early this year an Airbus A300F (OO-TZD) of TNT went to Airbus Toulouse for Stage IV engine testes. Greetz, Dave
You gave the plural of testis! 8O Engine testes? You take Bill, the bull by the... horns, that is..
www.luchtzak.be/postt5056.html
www.luchtzak.be/postt4916.html
Indeed, Snecma Moteurs is also involved in the higher-thrust turbofans that power widebody airliners. It is the lead partner on the General Electric GE90, which powers the Boeing 777. The new GE90-115B version is the most powerful engine in the world. In addition, Snecma Moteurs has a stake in several versions of the CF6, developing 47,200 to 72,000 pounds of thrust. And it has a 10% share of the Engine Alliance GP7000, on offer for the new Airbus A380 super-jumbo.
The V2500 is designed with environmental responsibility in mind, and no competitor can match its advantages. An exceptionally small noise footprint makes it welcome even at airports with the most stringent noise requirements and its low cabin noise enhances passenger comfort. In fact, noise levels on the V2500 already meet Stage IV requirements for the entire A320 family. V2500 meets proposed Stage IV for entire A320 family.
What is possible in one family can be achieved in an other!
And what can for passengers' aircraft, can be done for cargo.
Do not dream too much! DHL will not buy the B777F, or any other new 'silent' plane for that matter, for economic reasons. They always said that only the MD11 satisfies their needs, because it is available on the second-hand market at reasonable prices. The B777F would be way too expensive!
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Well, as insider I can tell you that DHL agreed to replace the MD11 with something others as soon as there is one. The government demands that DHL at this moment already sign an agreement that they will replace them as from 2011. How can they do this if they are not sure there will be a replacement:?: .
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pascal-air
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 20 Oct 2004, 00:00
Pilatus, I am not agree with you. Boieng officially said that the B777F will be ready soon and they need to order it now. They can sign an agreement that they will replace the MD-11 when the B777F will be available. However, like someone else said, I think that DHL is not ready to buy new first-hand airplanes like the B777F. I think that DHL is only ready to "try to look for replacing" the current planes with others second-hand planes, and this means that there is no way for any replacement before the 10 or 15 coming years.pilatus wrote:Well, as insider I can tell you that DHL agreed to replace the MD11 with something others as soon as there is one. The government demands that DHL at this moment already sign an agreement that they will replace them as from 2011. How can they do this if they are not sure there will be a replacement:?: .
Now DHL has to choose between sign an agreement for replacing their planes with B777F as soon as they will be available, or to leave Zaventem... I hope they will make a clear and final choice about that question, because the government requirements will not change about DHL.
DHL cannot sign anything as long as the program isn't officially launched. "Ready soon" doesn't mean a lot does itpascal-air wrote:
Pilatus, I am not agree with you. Boieng officially said that the B777F will be ready soon and they need to order it now. They can sign an agreement that they will replace the MD-11 when the B777F will be available.
BTW welcome to Luchtzak
Chris
Well Avro, that is just what I wanted to say. And by the way it will not be new B777f, it is an conversion program like they did for the B757SF and I thought also for the B767F. One more important thing is that till now the MD11's are in wet lease, I don't know if any of the present are future companys DHL is wet leasing from has the intention to swap to B777F.
Pascal, one of the honorable ministers indeed said he received a fax from Boeing, confirming that a freighter version of the B777 would be available soon. I don't believe that. Why would Boeing confirm this top story to a minister from a banana republic, and not to their possible clients, f.e. through their site? So don't believe minister Vandela: there's no decision yet about the freighter version of the B777.
Why would Boeing invest in a large wide body cargo plane? ? They already have the best selling cargo plane for that market share = the B747-400F.
The first B777 flight (a 777-200) was on 6th Dec 1994: almost 10 years ago. If Boeing would have decided for a cargo version, they would have done that long time ago.
Why would Boeing invest in a large wide body cargo plane? ? They already have the best selling cargo plane for that market share = the B747-400F.
The first B777 flight (a 777-200) was on 6th Dec 1994: almost 10 years ago. If Boeing would have decided for a cargo version, they would have done that long time ago.
They may be wet lease, but not by DHL. These things operate under a LH Flight number, a company with whom DHL have a large BSA sufficient to meet intercontinental needs (at present).
Basically, a whole 777 (or any intercontinental wide body) would mean taking on the full burden of full ACMI operating costs, which are considerably more than block space bookings.
This has occurred historically with certain previously BSA operated destinations, but this will take growth, market, and time.
Basically, a whole 777 (or any intercontinental wide body) would mean taking on the full burden of full ACMI operating costs, which are considerably more than block space bookings.
This has occurred historically with certain previously BSA operated destinations, but this will take growth, market, and time.
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pascal-air
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 20 Oct 2004, 00:00
Personally, I don't know anything about 777 plans. The only thing I know is that many clients are looking for a 777 freighter version (not only belgium lol, because this is a good replacement of the md-11 for several reasons: look at the web and you will find many pages about it) and since july 2004, Boeing is really looking for a solution. May be the project will never succeed, or not, I don't know. Anyway, if the belgium government wants to have "silent" aircrafts, and if the governments tells DHL that Boeing is planning a 777 freighter version, if I were DHL, I would say that : I am agree to purchase 777 freighter as soon as they will be available on the market but in the meantime I have to increase the MD-11 usage for economical reasons. I think that "politically" this is an acceptable answer from DHL : I say politically because you know the difference between the political and the technical/economical point of view. Today, governments can not (and will not) accept any more noise from the airport (especially because of the Anciaux plan !!). It does not make sense to discuss about it because this is a fact and this fact could not (and will not) be changed. For me the only possible issue (if it exists) is that DHL shows and proofs that it can and will invest into more silent aircrafts. Maybe more silent aircrafts will never exists, in that case this is not a problem because DHL would have only promise to buy more silent aircrafts if the case there are any available on the market. The only "danger" is that I really think that 777 FA or something comparable but less noisy will be available before 2011.... So from my point of view it is up to DHL to know and to decide if they want to stay at Brussels (and then accepts the limitations and may be they will need to buy new aircrafts), or to leave. At the end, for me, I think that DHL wants to stay "blurry" (not clear) on its promises because I think they are not ready to invest into expensive first-hand new aircrafts....LX-LGX wrote:Pascal, one of the honorable ministers indeed said he received a fax from Boeing, confirming that a freighter version of the B777 would be available soon. I don't believe that. Why would Boeing confirm this top story to a minister from a banana republic, and not to their possible clients, f.e. through their site? So don't believe minister Vandela: there's no decision yet about the freighter version of the B777.
Why would Boeing invest in a large wide body cargo plane? ? They already have the best selling cargo plane for that market share = the B747-400F.
The first B777 flight (a 777-200) was on 6th Dec 1994: almost 10 years ago. If Boeing would have decided for a cargo version, they would have done that long time ago.
But please, do not thing I am telling that DHL is the only faulty/wrong part of the story : the mistake comes either from the government and DHL : this situation could have been avoided if DHL clearly told what they wanted and what they could really offer (jobs & aircrafts) and if the government (especially federal) would not have been waited too much time and would have proposed several real solutions like Anciaux plan abortion, Bierset or Chievres relocation in a second time.... But now, it is pretty too late...