brussels airlines to New York!

[DeltaWiskey]

The price I mention is the seat + IFE + installation cost. It is the total cost (per seat) to have it installed in the aircraft, it is not the list price.

[taz001]

The new C class product is below the big expectations and so is the new economy product.
I don't see much of anything revolutionary, just the CEO doing his job.

Well, to be honest, I don't know what you had in mind, but I find these pictures promising... I flew quite some times accross the pond with different airlines (AA in Y/C, LH in Y/C, LX in C, CO in Y, SK in Y, KL in Y, AF in Y/C and mostly UA in Y/C/F) in all classes. I liked (seatwise) UA in F and C and LX in C. This new seat seems to be the same than LX (maybe even a slightly updated version?) so I can only be happy that SN made this choice. I will give my final judgement after flying them in a new seat, but based in the LX experience: :thumbup: .
My only point of critic is that they are keeping 'only' 30 seats in C... I personally believe that 42 would be better to attract high yield passengers, Upgrading can be very hard with only limited seats in C available...

[sn26567]

This new seat seems to be the same than LX (maybe even a slightly updated version?) so I can only be happy that SN made this choice.

Indeed Mr Gustin said that the new seat (manufactured by Thompson Vantage) is a further evolution of the seat installed by Swiss.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

I am very happy about the new brussels airlines BRU-JFK fligts... finally got 2 tickets (me & my wife) including the inaugural flight! Still don't know however if I gonna drive or use the Thalys trains between Paris (where I live) and BRU...
Happy to fly on the refurbished A330 also! The new interior looks very good to me and above the european and american standards... hope it will help in facing the competition on the BRU-NYC markets!

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Why don't you take the Thalys train to Brussels airport?

This is exactly what Brussels Airlines suggests:

"There is enough connecting time if you take Thalys from CDG to BRU and then our flight to NYC. You can book the train + flight ticket at once at our call centre (not yet available online) +32 (0)2 723 23 62".

However, SN is wrong: the Thalys departs from Paris Nord and not from CDG.

According to your recommendation, I used to call the brussels airlines call centre regarding the Paris-BRU leg but they don't seem very informed and did'nt give helpful information... In fact they recommended to use Thalys on PAR-BRU(-JFK) leg and the plane on the(JFK-)BRU-CDG way back!!! Then I asked them for the price but never received the information!!! Must admit I was a bit disappointed...

Do they normaly proceed to the Thalys bookings? Are the prices cheaper than on the Thalys booking engine directly (if they include the Thalys trip on the whole ticket price?!).

Is there someone here at SN who can do something for the parisian brussels airlines lovers willing to fly SN on others flights than Africa

[RoMax]

According to "Het Nieuwsblad" Brussels Airlines recorded more than 12 000 bookings for the flights to JFK by last week.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

What can explain such a success?
If confirmed, it will seriously hurt the american competitors but also Jet Airways on the BRU-NYC market?

[RoMax]

What can explain such a success?
If confirmed, it will seriously hurt the american competitors but also Jet Airways on the BRU-NYC market?

The attractive prices they are offering I suppose.

[Flanker]

brusselsairlinesfan wrote:
What can explain such a success?
If confirmed, it will seriously hurt the american competitors but also Jet Airways on the BRU-NYC market?

The attractive prices they are offering I suppose.

It's too early to cry victory.
12000 bookings in one month is 70% load factor.
Since the bookings are probably for travel anywhere from June to October, it's not very spectacular, even less considering that 10% of the bookings were done in the first 24 hours?

The competitors have responded and DL and AA are now cheaper.

[Bralo20]

Its always fun to see the overly optimistic Flanker post something.

[sn26567]

SN has released its summer timetable a few days ago (http://prof.estat.com/r/roi/27007019700 ... t_2012.pdf).

It contains of course the schedules of the new route to New York, but if you want to go elsewhere in North America, there is no mention at all of a route via the new flights to New York: only LH flights via FRA and MUC, or UA flights via EWR, ORD, IAD, or other flights on codeshare partners are mentioned.

This is not the right way to fill the JFK flights. It seems to me that codeshare flights with JetBlue and/or United should have been negotiated for continuation of travel from New York before printing the timetable. Where are the SN marketing people?

[RoMax]

This is not the right way to fill the JFK flights. It seems to me that codeshare flights with JetBlue and/or United should have been negotiated for continuation of travel from New York before printing the timetable. Where are the SN marketing people?

Who says they weren't negotiated? There may be various reasons why there are still not codeshares to be found. Just like SN and Thai didn't codeshare until very recently.

Anyway, SN seems to be happy with their JFK bookings. They've sold already more than 25 000 tickets, enough to fill almost 90 full A333 flights.
They also launched a new promotion fare. You can book flights as from 23 August until 31 October as from 519 euro. For the summer you see prices going from around 600 up to more than 1000 euro at certain moments (like certain dates in July) for the cheapest tickets.

I can be wrong, but it seems (based on what I know about it...so basicly noting :p )SN is doing quite good in filling their JFK flights.

[Flanker]

Anyway, SN seems to be happy with their JFK bookings. They've sold already more than 25 000 tickets, enough to fill almost 90 full A333 flights.

In almost 4 months of sales, they sold tickets to fill airplanes for 1 month and a half.
Of that, at least 20% went at rock bottom fares and who knows how many more are low/no-yield connecting tickets to Africa. This is for the busy summer season.

Oh well, I might be annoying, but this makes me sick.

If that's good news, then the 85 million loss surely is worth a big beach party on the tarmac.

Next year, Mr.Boeing will be saying "we all knew that JFK would not work". So predictable...



To call it a successful launch, they should have had 50.000 tickets sold at 500 euro average one-way by now. We can thank god that they didn't consider BOS.

[RoMax]

I decided to read your post, better didn't... Maybe you should look at other prices for NYC in the summer period? 400 euro was SN's promotion fare...well I could easilly found simular fares at Jet Airways, Delta, United and American. I can found promotion fares between 300 and 400 euro between Europe and NYC in the summer period. Nothing special about the SN promotion fare. Same for the other prices that SN currently has for the NYC flights, it seems SN fares ar rather high compared to others (except Jet Airways). But that's what I see of course.

BTW, yes 25000 is 'just' for one and a half month, but I hope you realise not each flight will be operating at a 100% loadfactor? When you take the loadfactor down to 80% you get already about 110 flights, and we are still more than a month away from the first flight anyway.

BTW, do you also realize it's normal that a long haul route often isn't making profit in the first months or even the first year, without this being seen as a disaster?

[Airbus330lover]

And...... some people can book in advance, but....if you need to go for biz, you don't know your planning in advance. AND this kind of tickets is not for 400 EUR

[tolipanebas]

What post did you read, Mr_Boeing, if I may ask? I didn't see anything...

Some interesting news: to promote the new long haul route, about 100 or so of the SN cabin crew will be flying in very different and highly visible uniforms shortly, not only on the JFK run, but throughout the entire network. Looks good!

[Flanker]

Anyway, SN seems to be happy with their JFK bookings. They've sold already more than 25 000 tickets, enough to fill almost 90 full A333 flights.

I don't argue that, I argue with the fact that you seem to be jumping with joy while the numbers are not so good. I'm a no-nonsense person as you know by now.

SN26557 is raising the obvious point that SN lacks connections on the JFK end.
I would have considered a failure to reach a codeshare with B6 (JetBlue), a no-go for the launch of this route, considering the shrinking equity situation. I could however have lived without a UA codeshare as they aren't that big in JFK, and given that SN is new competition for their EWR flights I would not have expected any help from them to fill the competing flight.

To me, given the current deteriorating financial situation of the company and unpredictable outlook in a very unstable business environment which seems to be turning bitter negative, I find this launch reckless and very difficult to justify.

It could be just me but I get this feeling that they're doing everything they can to bring the company down, perhaps so that LH can restart Africa from FRA or MUC? As long as SN is around, LH can't do that, but when almost all the money is gone and the company is borderline insolvent, they can buy the remaining stake for next to nothing, repaint the A330's refurbished at the expense of the SN Airholding, send them to FRA or MUC and take-over the African bases.
They can then pretend that they saved part of the company by rehiring some of the staff in Germany, instead of being accused of asset-stripping the company. Good PR.

I get this feeling that LH is in for a Gordon Gekko trick and SN is plying the role of Blue Star.

[DeltaWiskey]

At least I already had a good laugh this morning. Today started better than yesterday.

[Inquirer]

To me, given the current deteriorating financial situation of the company and unpredictable outlook in a very unstable business environment which seems to be turning bitter negative, I find this launch reckless and very difficult to justify.

So they have taken a calculated risk by moving outside of their comfort zone: isn't that what doing business is all about? I'd say give JFK your best shot, see what it brings and if it doesn't fully deliver, try something else: no big deal to me. It's not this single route which is going to make or brake the company, is it?

Not daring to try something else, but rather just doing the same (or doing less even, to just stem the losses) is definitely not going to bring any change, is it?

Don't just look at adversity as nothing but a bad thing; it also brings many opportunities.
Not even daring to grasp that opportunity however is a guaranteed failure: better whine about squandered opportunities than missed opportunities, is my strong belief.

BTW, any more info on that new crew uniform, tolipanebas?
I admit you've made me quite curious with your teasing remark.

[cnc]

SN26557 is raising the obvious point that SN lacks connections on the JFK end.
I would have considered a failure to reach a codeshare with B6 (JetBlue), a no-go for the launch of this route, considering the shrinking equity situation. I could however have lived without a UA codeshare as they aren't that big in JFK, and given that SN is new competition for their EWR flights I would not have expected any help from them to fill the competing flight.

the main reason why JFK is launched is not to allow pax more US destinations via JFK but to use it as feeder for the africa network + O&D. If the route doesn't perform as expected after some months i'm sure they will adjust the strategy but for now they should keep it as it is. we still haven't had the first flight and already some think its doomed.