new A319 for SN

[sdbelgium]

Yes, departed for BCM (Bacau) on the 22nd as BEL9901 for MX, prior return to the lessor BBAM (Babcock & Brown).

[RoMax]

So SN has only 4 B734's left for the moment? And OO-LTM will leave the fleet also this year. So afther that aircraft left the fleet SN will only have 4 B733's and 4 B734's, correct?

[TUB023]

indeed correct.
LTM is scheduled for a c-c in april.

[RoMax]

F-OHJX made a pre-delivery flight test yesterday in Shannon. So I expect it will arrive verry soon.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Star-All ... 7ab69ba085

[Air Key West]

Thanks for the picture. Anyone any idea why the engines are painted in light purple ?

[134flyer]

Anyone any idea why the engines are painted in light purple ?

Aircraft painted in Star Alliance colours keep their engines (& winglets) painted in the c/s of the airline.

[Conti764]

Anyone any idea why the engines are painted in light purple ?

Aircraft painted in Star Alliance colours keep their engines (& winglets) painted in the c/s of the airline.

With the SN colorscheme it just is plain ugly, imho...

[Air Key West]

I agree with you, Conti764. But thanks for the clarification, 134flyer. Let's hope we'll get a totally new livery for the aircraft from the fleet renewal. That's still many years from now and a different subject, however.

[TUB023]

repaint's aren't far from now

[134flyer]

I agree with you, Conti764. But thanks for the clarification, 134flyer.

You're welcome! I also agree that leaving engines etc painted in the 'original' airline colours on Star Alliance painted aircraft does look rather awkward for some airlines...

[Air Key West]

Hi TUB023 ! You're making me (and certainly many others) very curious. What do you mean by "repaints are not far from now" ?

[Conti764]

Hi TUB023 ! You're making me (and certainly many others) very curious. What do you mean by "repaints are not far from now" ?

I guess the two remaining A319's will get the full Brussels Airlines colorscheme? I would like to see the old A330's get the full SN color scheme as well, but I guess it's kinda hard to schedules those frames to get their paintjob.

[TUB023]

from what i've heard they are planning to repaint their RJ's

not sure if they're gonna do that tho, since the leasing contract prlly are coming to an end in the neirby future?

[cathay belgium]

from what i've heard they are planning to repaint their RJ's

If this should be true that's really a good idea !
Their not that stupid ( I hope ).
But.. when avro's are replaced,the new planes (embraers? ) will get a new paint job !

CX-B

[Conti764]

from what i've heard they are planning to repaint their RJ's

If this should be true that's really a good idea !
Their not that stupid ( I hope ).
But.. when avro's are replaced,the new planes (embraers? ) will get a new paint job !

CX-B

Unless they would be planning on keeping at least some of the Avro's... After all, some are still relatively young (end of the nineties) and can still have some value for SN's operations. Due to the low numbers in service, I don't think the leasing rates are very high and money can be earned by them if they are used in a smart way.

[Air Key West]

I quite like b.air's Avrojet, but the problem with these aircraft is that they burn more or less 50 % more fuel than an A319 (per pax/km) and with the current cost of oil, these aircraft are expensive to operate. I'm tempted to say that the Avrojets' fuel consumption is maybe one of the main reasons why b.air's European operations are not profitable. Especially, given the fact that even the smaller RJ85 is too big for certain destinations. But, I know I am getting slightly off topic.

[FLYAIR10]

I quite like b.air's Avrojet, but the problem with these aircraft is that they burn more or less 50 % more fuel than an A319 (per pax/km) and with the current cost of oil, these aircraft are expensive to operate. I'm tempted to say that the Avrojets' fuel consumption is maybe one of the main reasons why b.air's European operations are not profitable. Especially, given the fact that even the smaller RJ85 is too big for certain destinations. But, I know I am getting slightly off topic.

AKW,I 'm not sure I understand corrrectly your statement about the "excessive" fuelconsumption of the AVRO's;
I once learned that an economic decision should NEVER be based on a cost/unit but should be based on "totals". So it might be true that the AVRO's are burning more fuel per pax/km than the A319,the "total" cost figure on a lot of SN routes will probably be in favour of the AVRO's.
example : suppose you have to carry 60 PAX between BRU and let's say Newcastle,Helsinki,Oslo,stockholm or other business destinations ,I would think the total costs to move those 60 pax will be in favour of the AVRO's because of : lower landing fees/traffic rights,lower pro-rate of leasing costs, insurance,pilots salaries and I guess also lower TOTAL fuel burn on sectors flown.
So, it might be worthwhile to keep some of the AVRO's anyway for a few more years .
On the other hand,indeed , even the ARJ85 is too big on some sectors. so why not set up some regional operations like Aer Lingus now is doing with Aer Arran,or AF/KL with Cityjet and LH with their regionals? Is there maybe an opportunity for a Belgian "entrepreneur" to set up a new regional airline and approach SN to start flying for them with ATR-42/72 or similar in SN's colours ? Of course that would need the blessing of mother LH..

[Conti764]

I quite like b.air's Avrojet, but the problem with these aircraft is that they burn more or less 50 % more fuel than an A319 (per pax/km) and with the current cost of oil, these aircraft are expensive to operate. I'm tempted to say that the Avrojets' fuel consumption is maybe one of the main reasons why b.air's European operations are not profitable. Especially, given the fact that even the smaller RJ85 is too big for certain destinations. But, I know I am getting slightly off topic.

AKW,I 'm not sure I understand corrrectly your statement about the "excessive" fuelconsumption of the AVRO's;
I once learned that an economic decision should NEVER be based on a cost/unit but should be based on "totals". So it might be true that the AVRO's are burning more fuel per pax/km than the A319,the "total" cost figure on a lot of SN routes will probably be in favour of the AVRO's.
example : suppose you have to carry 60 PAX between BRU and let's say Newcastle,Helsinki,Oslo,stockholm or other business destinations ,I would think the total costs to move those 60 pax will be in favour of the AVRO's because of : lower landing fees/traffic rights,lower pro-rate of leasing costs, insurance,pilots salaries and I guess also lower TOTAL fuel burn on sectors flown.
So, it might be worthwhile to keep some of the AVRO's anyway for a few more years .
On the other hand,indeed , even the ARJ85 is too big on some sectors. so why not set up some regional operations like Aer Lingus now is doing with Aer Arran,or AF/KL with Cityjet and LH with their regionals? Is there maybe an opportunity for a Belgian "entrepreneur" to set up a new regional airline and approach SN to start flying for them with ATR-42/72 or similar in SN's colours ? Of course that would need the blessing of mother LH..

Is it possible for SN to rely on LH subsidiaries to perform such flights? Augsburg Airways f.e. might fly the BRU - NCE route on behalf of SN.

[Air Key West]

The Avrojets were bought by sabena/dat at a time when oil prices were between 20-30 USD a barril. Now with prices around 80 USD, the Avrojets, to my understanding, are only profitable on high yield routes and even on high yield routes, with b.air's LF between 50-60 %, I suspect operating these aircraft is seldom profitable for b.air. After replacing the 737s, the Avrojets urgently need to be replaced (not because I don't like the aircraft, on the contrary) but because the airline needs regional jets (from 50 to 100 seaters) which are more cost-effective to operate.
For short and thinner routes, the new ATR-42-600 could indeed be an option (Newcastle, Bristol, Strasbourg, even perhaps Lyon, and Amsterdam if b.air decides to fly there). I don't think it is necessary to create a new regional airline, b.air can take care of that if they want. The idea for larger airlines of creating a regional subsidiary is mainly there to offer lower wages and less favorable working conditions to crew. Now these conditions are already so low at b.air that I don't see how it would be possible to offer less to crew than what they get now.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Is there maybe an opportunity for a Belgian "entrepreneur" to set up a new regional airline and approach SN to start flying for them with ATR-42/72 or similar in SN's colours ? Of course that would need the blessing of mother LH..

Be careful for what you wish for

Is it possible for SN to rely on LH subsidiaries to perform such flights? Augsburg Airways f.e. might fly the BRU - NCE route on behalf of SN.

So exit AVRO's and exit SN ! Downsize of SN !

I don't like to see Augsburgs,Cityline or other Embraers flying SN's destinations.
I prefer an embraer or whatever ( an AVRO ) in Brussels colors !!

If we give away small destinations to others what will rest ??
5/6 A330 for AFI and some A319 for Geneva,Berlin,Hamburg, and some others ???
Than I would even prefer some props or older AVRO's or a sukhoi superjet !!
Cx-B