DHL expansion?

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 30 Sep 2004, 13:09

Avro wrote:I more and more think that DHL does not want (for anything) to completely leave BRU, but are now trying to get the best deal with the concerned governments.

Well i also start to think this, otherwise they would have made a decesion already, but they just postpone and postpone ....

Post by **sn26567** » 30 Sep 2004, 14:27

luchtzak wrote:Meanwhile DHL contacted Liège Bierset airport, they have recontacted DHL that they would be more than happy to welcome DHL in Bierset. Total cost of the eventual move: 500.000.000 €

Meer in de GVA

or in LLB

Post by **sn26567** » 30 Sep 2004, 14:47

killerwhale65 wrote:apparently there is a problem now about MD-11's.
I thought an MD-11 was a rather new plane and thus not that noisy? Why is it noisy? Compared to what? Secondly i'm not aware of MD-11's used by DHL? Or do they mean when they expand?

DHL does not own any MD-11 now, but their commercial direstor Xavier de Buck said yesterdat that they intend to buy many of them on the second-hand market and convert them into freighters.

The MD-11 has a noise quota count of 11. The limit for night flights in BRU is 12. No problem? Well, the government has imposed a noise quota count of 8 for the future. Consequence: if DHL wants to replace its older planes with MD-11s, they will not be allowed in BRU...

pilatus · Post by **pilatus** » 30 Sep 2004, 15:23

First, it is not a strike tomorrow but just everyone who wants can come to the Departure hall. I don't agree that Virgin, Tui etc are not involved with this. Maybe not direct and not immediatly but where is this going to stop? First the night flights and the next step if you give the, what they ask they will start to complain about the dayflights.
Second, the reason that DHL tries to keep it main Hub in Belgium is that if the MD11 has to operat out of Leipzig or Frankfurt it will be a penalty of 5 tons payload because of the extra fuel.

Greetz,

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 30 Sep 2004, 15:24

and what about the 777, or other planes? Whats their quota?
What is this quota based on? On the amount of decibels produced?

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 30 Sep 2004, 15:25

pilatus wrote:if the MD11 has to operat out of Leipzig or Frankfurt it will be a penalty of 5 tons payload because of the extra fuel.

could you explain this please?

pilatus · Post by **pilatus** » 30 Sep 2004, 15:38

The distance, they want to operate to the States.

The B777 doesn't excist in freighter configuration. Boeing still has to start with the convertion program. But if they are ready DHL will use them iso the MD11. Further negotiation are busy at the moment concerning this with the goverment.

Greetz,

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 30 Sep 2004, 15:41

ok, sorry

regi · Post by **regi** » 30 Sep 2004, 17:16

whatever the media says about the MD-11, I just have to say I had my best long haul flights with these birds, as a passenger. And accidently with Swissair. Yes, maybe I should join that newstopic group. But believe me, it was great. High speed (if we may believe the inboard inforamtion), and very thin but confortable reccaro seats. A magic carpet ride.
I wonder how long it will take before we will see an announcement by Biman that they take delivery of MD-11 to replace their DC-10?
And so we return to the topic: Biman flies its DC-10's to Zaventem. What about that?

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 30 Sep 2004, 17:18

regi wrote: And so we return to the topic: Biman flies its DC-10's to Zaventem. What about that?

the DC10 of BG doesn't make night flights at BRU

OrientThai · Post by **OrientThai** » 30 Sep 2004, 17:32

Last night, I saw on the news that they are continuing to build new houses just next to the airport (in Sterrebeek) incredible! 8O And these people who come to live there, and who know about the noise problem will certainly complain about it in the future

Post by **sn26567** » 30 Sep 2004, 17:39

OrientThai wrote:Last night, I saw on the news that they are continuing to build new houses just next to the airport (in Sterrebeek) incredible! 8O And these people who come to live there, and who know about the noise problem will certainly complain about it in the future

Who is to blame for that? The people that build the houses, or the Flemish government that allowed this land to be put in the "constructible area"? The city of Sterrebeek is obliged to deliver a construction permit, because the land is in the red-coloured area on the map (instead of green or yellow, as it should be).

Badabing · Post by **Badabing** » 30 Sep 2004, 19:28

MD-11 has a Quota Count of 12, so it is just at the limit of those A/C allowed to operate to/from BRU between 23:00 and 06:00.
Therefore, of all the A/C allowed to operate at night at BRU, they are the most noisy. But though media depict them as monsters, they are the most quiet freighters in their weight class presently available in the market : many 747's easily double that quota count. (that's why you don't see them operate BRU at night!)
Eva and Saudia use the MD-11 for night ops ex BRU.
DHL uses leased MD11 to connect with US hubs at present. they are operated by third parties on their behalf. Spotters must have noticed World, Gemini, LHcargo....

DHL cannot reach really long haul destinations from BRU if the noise quota is lowered below 12. No freighter below QC12 can stretch the same distances with the same load. The projected future 777F WILL be more quiet. Only problem : it won't be built before another few years.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 30 Sep 2004, 19:41

Badabing wrote: Spotters must have noticed World, Gemini, LHcargo....

As far as I know the LH Cargo flight in cooperation with DHL is operated by a Gemini Air Cargo MD11.

Chris

Post by **Kapitein** » 30 Sep 2004, 19:50

For the moment there is only 1 nightflight with a MD-11F for DHL. The Gemini Air Cargo that leaves at 0345 LT.

The World Airways MD-11F departs before 2300 LT, so no nightflight.

ILS25L · Post by **ILS25L** » 30 Sep 2004, 22:17

Goodevening,
From what I heard DHL intends to buy 2nd hand 777 pax and let them convert to freighters. Although this program has not been started I am wondering how many years it would take before this programm is realized and furthermore, how many 777 would DHL need to replace the "noisy" MD-11's ? Is the number of aircrafts worth to go for by Boeing or by another company ?
If they want to buy new 777-freighters (if they ever will produce them), what should be the minimal order for Boeing to start this project ?
Greetz, Karl

TWR · Post by **TWR** » 30 Sep 2004, 22:54

DHL states they have to order at least 25 B777s if they want to get a discount. I think that rules out buying these babies...

Sure, the MD11 is noisy compared to a B752 or B777, but what a performance !! It climbs like a rocket.

Anyway, DHL always complied with all the regulations the government imposed: they got rid of the B727, they flew the ridiculous SIDs without complaining and they do taxi 25 minutes for RWY 07R, although 07L would only require 10 minutes. So don't blame them if they leave. Making a profit and being the market leader are no sins, and they sure aren't the salvation army !

And why is nobody making a distinction between departing flights and arriving flights ? 16 flights with an MD11 doesn't mean 16 departures and it sure doesn't mean 16 departures over Brussels...

After the bankrupcy of SABENA our government made some expensive promises about employment in the aviation-industry. Sure looks like they already forgot about that...

Post by **sn26567** » 01 Oct 2004, 08:59

Badabing wrote:MD-11 has a Quota Count of 12.

My information says 11.1. But the conclusion is the same: OK for night flights now, forbidden in future government plans for BRU.

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 01 Oct 2004, 18:26

DHL announced that an answer to Verhofstads letter (i sincerely hope he did not send this letter via De Post!) could take a while.

Is this good news? Or am i daydreaming? I would say that if DHL stays with its 16 MD11's they could have just said that. But now that it will take some time, maybe they are working on a solution to replace MD11's?
And i really hope that DHL's internal services can cooperate better then our governments

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 01 Oct 2004, 18:31

I agree with you. If it was NO for sure they don't need time to give that response. But this doesn't mean that it'll be a clear YES as well !!!!

Anyway, I'm really admireing the patience of DHL.