Brussels Airlines' second US destination

[Bralo20]

Actually, the last arrival of SN536 out of IAD was on 27/09/2001 arriving in BRU on 28/09 and was indeed flown by OO-SFU

It would be awsome to have the same bird fly the inauguration

[crew1990]

But if they fly only 5x a week, maybe SN could add 2 evening weekly flight to JFK... If not, what will do SN when the bird is not flying to IAD?

[RoMax]

But if they fly only 5x a week, maybe SN could add 2 evening weekly flight to JFK... If not, what will do SN when the bird is not flying to IAD?

I don't think that's such a good idea. Adding evening flights to JFK or EWR should be at least 4/week in my opinion (flexibility). But maybe one or two extra's to Africa?

[convair]

I have no doubt that the departure/arrival times have been carefully choosen, and obviously you can't please everybody at the same time. However, they are not very convenient for the AFI flights, contrary to what the SN press release states: most depatures from BRU, including Kinshasa and Douala, are before noon; and all flights from AFI arrive (very) early in the morning, so pax will have to spend the whole day in BRU. Did SN make a deal with the tax-free shops?

[RoMax]

I have no doubt that the departure/arrival times have been carefully choosen, and obviously you can't please everybody at the same time. However, they are not very convenient for the AFI flights, contrary to what the SN press release states: most depatures from BRU, including Kinshasa and Douala, are before noon; and all flights from AFI arrive (very) early in the morning, so pax will have to spend the whole day in BRU. Did SN make a deal with the tax-free shops?

Again, look at the 12 weekly flights as operated by one airline, not as both SN and UA serving a different market. United serves the majority of the AFI-connections. But 5 of the daily flights to Abidjan (and those destinations connected with ABJ) leave at 14:30...these destinations FINALLY get a decent transfer possibility from the US.
Pax arriving from Africa, take UA back to IAD, pax arriving from the US take either United or SN depending on which fits them the best. Besides, SN serves a huge business demand for an evening flight to the US. EU, NATO, several companies will be very happy with flights that leav in the evening (so they can spend at least half a day at work before leaving, currently they don't have anything about their day in BRU and when arriving in the US it's actually too late to start working and you are tired anyway). SN also offers EU connections and in the US they connect to the evening wave of United.

You could argue about the fact that SN may be better to operate the morning flight and UA the evening flight (because of the AFI-connections), but I doubt UA was willing to give that up. They've already done quite a thing by 'allowing' SN to start IAD (even tough they are in a joint-venture sharing revenues, it isn't that easy to partly give up the gold mine of IAD-BRU).

[tolipanebas]

But if they fly only 5x a week, maybe SN could add 2 evening weekly flight to JFK... If not, what will do SN when the bird is not flying to IAD?

Don't forget there are significant increases on AFI too this summer, amongst others a return to DKR daily, iso 4 times weekly, so that will absorb the rest of the added capacity the 8th A330 brings us.

[convair]

@ RoMax

I fully agree with you.
But my point was that the SN press release wrongly states that the new IAD flight offers good connections to/from AFI: only to Abidjan, Cotonou and Lome and none for the arriving AFI flights. I had even forgotten to mention the East Africa flights that also depart before noon.

[RoMax]

But my point was that the SN press release wrongly states that the new IAD flight offers good connections to/from AFI: only to Abidjan, Cotonou and Lome and none for the arriving AFI flights. I had even forgotten to mention the East Africa flights that also depart before noon.

Yes ok, SN's flight for sure isn't the prefered one for most AFI connections. But it's a press release and as always, things are said to be nicer than they actually are. It sounds better when you add Yaound and Douala for exemple (two very important destinations) to the list instead of only talking about Abidjan and the combined destinations.
They shouldn't, but it always happens...

[RoMax]

When looking at airliners.net, our US-friends seem to be very convinced about the timings of this flight. Offering perfect connections to the evening wave of UA in IAD (offering connections to up to 44 destinations as mentioned in the press release) and great timings for government (EU/US government), NATO and business traffic that now often decides to take the evening options through LHR and FRA (both offering a 17h departure to IAD, so about the same timing for the IAD-Europe sector as SN's flight).

This flight can be seen for sure as a flight that will take back a part of the O&D market that belongs to SN/BRU, but was lost to competing airports due to the way too limited offer out of BRU.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Finally!
brussels airlines will link both Europe & US capitals...
I wish them the same success as for JFK, as SN truly deserves it...
What's next now? BOS and/or YUL probably... or one new dot in Africa?!

[Wohowbagger]

I did a quick search; price for a RT 2013-06-01: 1.011EUR...
what's the common price for this flight (with or without a stop)?

saw this via @Stijn_Verbeeck 'Twitter (Bralo20 on this forum if I'm not mistaken):

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

1250 in november
Sorry, I will take 'my' US carrier AA with stop !
Guess it isn't NYC and they have to pay United a lot..
Pity, thats an intro offer

CXB

[quixoticguide]

? 1250 maybe in the autumn holiday?

[RoMax]

Depending on the period I can find flights from 592 going up to 1200-1300 in July for example. (for November I can still find reasonable prices of 766 btw)
But of course, this is a totaly different route as JFK. Less competition and a very strong very high yield O&D market (SN is perfectly timed for a big part of that O&D market). The low prices you can often find to JFK or EWR are good for the customers, less for the airlines... If SN can afford themself to ask such high prices, and still get loads of bookings, they have to do it. If bookings are low, prices will drop and/or a real promotion fare will be launched.
Look at Africa, some of their flights are 700-1000 euro in promotion... Not that you can really compare IAD with Africa, but it's just, if the market doesn't push for low prices like on NYC, high prices will be asked.

[Darjeeling]

Very smart and clever move from SN. I'm so happy they finally understood they HAD to expand their long-haul URGENTLY. They're perfectly timed fill their plane with a lucrative O&D premium pax. NATO, Shape, US Embassy, US agencies located in Virginia, and others companies like pharmaceuticals.

I think this is a significant sign of A++ ("Atlantic plus-plus") joint-venture's benefits. UA and LH played a significant role in determining what combination would be the best for SN and Star Alliance.

Not to be forgotten: this is an open door for a second long-haul "wave" in the afternoon/evening, this will also help the loadfactors for the European network and satisfy BRU airport. I'm sure EWR could follow in 2014 with similar timings if the IAD venture proves successful.

[RoMax]

Eturbonews always seems to very positive about SN, and again they are indeed quite happy it seems
http://www.eturbonews.com/33270/brussel ... destinatio

[Tomskii]

Soon to be joining us again for Washington. http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 640790.jpg

It used to go there with Sabena, and now after 12 years it will be back

[tolipanebas]

While I understand the entusiasm for sending OO-SFU back to IAD, we should not forget its cabin configuration as it will be when it joins the fleet of Brussels Airlines is not what it used to be in the days when it was still flying for Sabena.

Back then, all A330s of Sabena had the same premium seat count (42 C seats), with the smaller A332 having less Y seats than the bigger A333. At Brussels Airlines however, it's exactly the opposite: both versions of the A330 have around 250 Y seats, but the bigger A333 comes with 8 more C seats than the smaller A332.

Given this route to IAD is clearly aimed at the premium segment of the O/D market, it's not beyond the realm of possibilities the route will actually regularly be flown with an A333 rather than an A332 as these planes offer SN more premium seats. It will depend on the booking up front.

[RoMax]

It's currently loaded with A332 indeed, but it shouldn't be a suprise if they start using A333... I think this evening flight is especially interesting for people that like to fly business class. But of course, that would mean they need to take an A333 away from a current route, and that may be less interesting (unless they currently operate them on flights with quite few C class pax).

[tolipanebas]

Several of the African leisure routes generally see just a handful of C class passengers, although cargo might be another reason to send the bigger plane.

Anyway, all this brings me back to one the issues I have with SN: IMHO, they have opted for a cabin configuration focussed too much on the back of the plane. For AFI this is indeed a good choice as this is a VFR driven market, but for transatlantic routes like JFK or IAD, it isn't and especially on IAD it will become obvious.

As they expand more on the transatlantic routes, it's high time to think about a different configuration for the next A332(s), giving it the same C class seatcount of the A333 to the detriment of a smaller Y cabin.