Qantas wants bigger 787

[CX]

RC20 Please give us your evidence that A330 sales are subsidizing the A380.

I have never heard such wild unsubstantiated bulls---t

Cheers
Achace

Well some of the A330s sold are said to be 'bridging' aircrafts for the A380, and probably those A330s are sold pretty cheaply as a result, to offset part of the compensation perhaps..

A few years ago suggesting Airbus to cancel the A380 might be OK, even though they wont anyway, but now that the thing will enter service in about 2 month's time, and we have someone suggesting that it's better off for Airbus to now cancel the A380 programme? Yes, at the moment it still seems like a business failure, but can't guarantee what will happen in coming years. Airlines are putting less than 500 seats in the A380 and still expect it to perform better than 744s, or even 748I, so i don't think it sucks that much.
Let's say Airbus does fail to secure more composite material to have a spun barrel fuselage, so what do you suggest? wait another few years and wait for the materials? By then 787s will occupy the sky. You guys are even more unhappy with the XWB than the airlines, unbelievable, and not understandable too. It's weird, when they listen to customers and do a re-design, some will go "oh airbus never makes up their mind, not helping their credibility" then when they don't, such as sticking with composite panels, "they don't listen to customers, customers want 787-type construction methods"...

[David747]

A few years ago suggesting Airbus to cancel the A380 might be OK, even though they wont anyway, but now that the thing will enter service in about 2 month's time, and we have someone suggesting that it's better off for Airbus to now cancel the A380 programme? Yes, at the moment it still seems like a business failure, but can't guarantee what will happen in coming years. Airlines are putting less than 500 seats in the A380 and still expect it to perform better than 744s, or even 748I, so i don't think it sucks that much."

An A380 with less than 500 seats would indeed out perform a 747-400 and the new 748, which is why Airbus will not abandon the program. In the coming months, when the A380 enter service, the is a strong chance of new orders for the A380.

Let's say Airbus does fail to secure more composite material to have a spun barrel fuselage, so what do you suggest? wait another few years and wait for the materials? By then 787s will occupy the sky. You guys are even more unhappy with the XWB than the airlines, unbelievable, and not understandable too. It's weird, when they listen to customers and do a re-design, some will go "oh airbus never makes up their mind, not helping their credibility" then when they don't, such as sticking with composite panels, "they don't listen to customers, customers want 787-type construction methods"

I have been critical of Airbus for not meeting the challenge of the 787, but they are listening to their customers, the only customer that they are not listening to it seems its Steve Udvar-Hazy who wants more changes, but Tim Clark of Emirates has said the A350 is closing the gap with the 787, so Airbus has to keep the road it has taken with the A350 design. Now, those who complain about Airbus not listeing to their customers, or Airbus losing credibility, just want to have their cake and eat it as well.

[boomer535]

I have heard that Airbus is building the A350 fuselage in "shells". Huge panels with built in stringers that will be bolted together. This looks like it may be as good as the barrels. We just have to see how this turns out.

As for the A350 using bleed air instead of all electric, we have to see how many teething problems that Boeing has with the all electric system on the 787. Airbus could always go all electric if things turn out well on the 787.

I think that many of the A330's are being sold for the same reason the 777 is selling. They are proven aircraft that are available now instead of years from now.

[achace]

Considering the A380 is about 1% overweight, the fact that airlines are now looking at less than 500 passengers speaks very highly for its in flight performance.

I believe it will always be easier to adjust the weight of a conventional fuselage construction than will be the case of the wound barrel. Will be interesting to see how they go at getting 2% out of the 787.

Cheers
Achace

[Gliderpilot]

Considering the A380 is about 1% overweight, the fact that airlines are now looking at less than 500 passengers speaks very highly for its in flight performance.

One percent doesn't look that much at first sight, but 6 tons overweight looks like a lot more. Six tons overweight means six tons less freight or 60 passengers less, or 300nm less range for the same fuel burn.