VLM : still growing

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 13 Aug 2007, 22:29

I don't think there is a market for any airline to fly between Brussels and Paris (irrespective of the airport). The high speed train takes you there in 1h25mn with departures every hour, sometimes every half hour. Much more convenient even if we, aviation freaks, would still like to fly to Paris from Brussels? Let's remain reallistic and practical.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 14 Aug 2007, 13:21

Hello

Gliderpilot:

PH-FZG was ±a month ago in QAPS, which is also in full VLM-livery like OO-VLS. Probably for the same reason, which I don't know, I'm curious too.

Probably just for a repainting, some aircraft of the fleet maybe need it, or it's just after a heavy maintenance check, big airlines get totally stripped for those checks and so have to be repainted, I've never seen that doing to a VLM personally so I don't know wetter they do it that way. Or it could just be that they don't do heavy maintenance checks at VLM technics @ EBAW.
But my guess is just because of maintenance reasons.

Best regards: Yannick

eurojet · Post by **eurojet** » 14 Aug 2007, 15:00

I believe that LUX-BRU should be possible for VLM. In the SN days, there were up to 4 returns BRU-LUX (operated by Schneider on Dash), and they were not all transfer pax. Why should this succeed?:
1) still no decent train between BRU and Lux (train takes nearly 3 hours), and high-speed will most probably never come between BRU and LUX
2) There is constant business traffic between BRU and LUX, and getting into Brussels is just getting tougher and tougher. Business meeting in Brussels at 10 am? Means leaving Lux at around 6 in the morning, only to get stuck from at E411 ...
3) Does it make sense for companies? Yes: on average, a company would pay EUR 0.40 per km. 400KM*0.40=EUR 160 already. Due to all the traffic jams, I tend to leave the night before and stay in Brussels, so add an EUR 200 for hotel, food and parking. So a trip to Brussels amounts to a nice EUR 360, + all the loss of time. For that price, VLM can fly me in and out
4) SN can put its code on the VLM flight, and provide connections in BRU... Would give us a new option rather than the usual LUX-FRA-..., LUX-AMS-..., LUX-CDG-....

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 14 Aug 2007, 18:35

I don't think there would be enough pax interested in flying between BRU and LUX to even fill a small aircraft, but I don't understand why b.air has not wet leased a 30 to 50 seater aircraft to fly between both cities and feed pax into their network. When I fly out of LUX, I always see plenty of business people on the plane (mainly to FRA or CDG). They are not all travelling on business class tickets, but even so, they are certainly pax with a good revenue yield for airlines. The problem is b.air pretends they are a low cost airline and they have not understood yet that if they want to survive, they will need to operate in BRU as a hub airline, if they want to fill their planes also outside the two summer months.
And I don't understand why there is no co-share agreement between b.air and VLM on the BRU-LCY route. It would give b.air an additional destination mainly for business travellers. But maybe VLM don't want the code share, because they don't need it. And VLM presents itself mainly as a business travellers airline, whereas b.air prefer to try (without succeedign) to be a low cost airline. Definitely two different airlines, two different strategies and philosophies. So, they will probably never be able to uderstand each other.

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 23 Aug 2007, 14:17

PH-DMS en PH-DMT will become OO-VLP and OO-VLF respectively. PH-FZG and PH-LMT remain in dutch register as far as I have found out.

Robin_Bamps · Post by **Robin_Bamps** » 23 Aug 2007, 14:30

Avanti Air flies twice daily between BRU and LUX on weekdays with Beech 1900 aircraft.
The plane arrives and leaves from Abelag, so I don't know if these flights are on behalf
of one certain company or really scheduled business flights.

Regards, Robin Bamps.

spotter1102 · Post by **spotter1102** » 23 Aug 2007, 15:18

Gliderpilot wrote:PH-DMS en PH-DMT will become OO-VLP and OO-VLF respectively. PH-FZG and PH-LMT remain in dutch register as far as I have found out.

Thanks

I update my website !

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 23 Aug 2007, 15:24

Robin_Bamps wrote:Avanti Air flies twice daily between BRU and LUX on weekdays with Beech 1900 aircraft.
The plane arrives and leaves from Abelag, so I don't know if these flights are on behalf
of one certain company or really scheduled business flights.

Regards, Robin Bamps.

ISTR this is for a major Belgian bank, can't remember which one though. It is explained somewhere on A.S.A. photosite but I cannot access that one right now.

I should think it would be cheaper for this bank to buy seats on a scheduled service wholesale than to operate their own - but bankers are said to be good at P/L analysis so I guess they worked it out carefully.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 23 Aug 2007, 23:16

Hello

eurojet:

operated by Schneider on Dash

I guess you mean 'schreiner airways'

.
Yes indeed they where.

Best regards: Yannick

ATR43 · Post by **ATR43** » 28 Aug 2007, 09:45

It would appear the other half namely Denim is also growing. They are apparently getting three F100s from UK operator Aravco.

Anyone know anything

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 28 Aug 2007, 10:08

According to the scramble forum, it seems that no Fokker 100 will be operated by Denim or VLM (both subsidiaries of Panta Holding), but they will go to Mass Holding (some other enterprise of J.R. Jacobsen) and will be ACMI-leases.
One person says that Denim is taking two Fokker 100's for ACMI-leases.

I don't know if any of these information is correct, so take it or leave it...

This is quite off-topic, so I suggest we go back to the matters of VLM.

eurojet · Post by **eurojet** » 28 Aug 2007, 13:21

Avanti Air flies twice daily between BRU and LUX on weekdays with Beech 1900 aircraft.
The plane arrives and leaves from Abelag, so I don't know if these flights are on behalf
of one certain company or really scheduled business flights

This is a daily flight organised by Fortis Luxembourg (ex-BGL), shuttling their staff to Fortis Brussels and back. Dexia, KBL, ING, you name it, they have hunderds of people travelling every day LUX-BRU-LUX ... All by themselvesd, in their lease cars, or at EUR 0.40 per km ... Most will even stay overnight, to avoid traffic jams in the morning ... A LUX-BRU-LUX flight does make sense.

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 28 Aug 2007, 14:00

I didn't know there was so much business traffic between BRU and LUX that rather would like to take the plane in stead of their luxury car. Maybe VLM is going to start a flight if you can guarantee (I think this is the important factor for VLM) that their flights will have at least 25+ passengers each flight. I think that also happened with their flights to Jersey and/or Isle of Man (I read it some time ago on the internet). Also tell them it can be many more if they can close deals with some majors (Dexia, KBL, ING,... and maybe Fortis if they provide a better deal than Avanti).

Gate-A1 · Post by **Gate-A1** » 28 Aug 2007, 14:34

Fortis lux is at the end of the Kirchberg, close to the airport so it is easy for them to take a plane. There are about 5 min or less from the airport and have a nice building and park

. You can see it during take off form LUX.

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 28 Aug 2007, 22:33

Bruspotter wrote:Hello

eurojet:
operated by Schneider on Dash
I guess you mean 'schreiner airways' ;).
Yes indeed they where.

Best regards: Yannick ;)

I guess you mean "they were"

Flybe · Post by **Flybe** » 28 Aug 2007, 22:53

This is a daily flight organised by Fortis Luxembourg (ex-BGL), shuttling their staff to Fortis Brussels and back. Dexia, KBL, ING, you name it, they have hunderds of people travelling every day LUX-BRU-LUX ... All by themselves, in their lease cars, or at EUR 0.40 per km ... Most will even stay overnight, to avoid traffic jams in the morning ... A LUX-BRU-LUX flight does make sense.

A little bit off topic, but I think for this case, they would be better of reserving places in one of the many Brussels - Luxembourg trains, or even rent a bus. A bus might take longer, but would be the cheapest. A train shouldn't take any longer than the flight taking into account embarking and disembarking. And by train, some people might come back earlier or later, instead of all waiting for the same plane.

A plane would be the most costly option, I would imagine.

Greets,

Pieter

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 28 Aug 2007, 23:15

A bus is out of question because there is the same problem with traffic jams and is more uncomfortable than their cars. It would take almost 3 hours to get to luxembourg from brussels, and vice versa. Probably the cheapest.

Trains, as stated by eurojet, takes around 3 hours without delays, due to bad and 'slow' (no high speed trains) connections.

A flight would take about 1h30 (embarking and disembarking concluded). It won't be the cheapest way, but cheaper than travel the way by car.

Flybe · Post by **Flybe** » 29 Aug 2007, 00:06

A bus is out of question because there is the same problem with traffic jams and is more uncomfortable than their cars. It would take almost 3 hours to get to luxembourg from brussels, and vice versa. Probably the cheapest.

Trains, as stated by eurojet, takes around 3 hours without delays, due to bad and 'slow' (no high speed trains) connections.

A flight would take about 1h30 (embarking and disembarking concluded). It won't be the cheapest way, but cheaper than travel the way by car.

I stand corrected. I indeed should have checked the trainschedules first. I was under the impression that there were faster trains to Luxembourg, but it appears I was wrong.

A luxury (mini-) bus is in my opinion still more comfortable than driving yourself, especially if it is to stand in traffic jams. I think it wouldn't be that much slower compared to a car, especially if traffic jams are involved.

Greets,

Pieter

Gliderpilot · Post by **Gliderpilot** » 29 Aug 2007, 21:56

Don't know where to place it, so I do it here in the big topic about VLM.

Anyone knows what this means? It's from the site of RTM.

A flight from AMS?

spotter1102 · Post by **spotter1102** » 29 Aug 2007, 22:07

Gliderpilot wrote:Don't know where to place it, so I do it here in the big topic about VLM.

Anyone knows what this means? It's from the site of RTM.

A flight from AMS?

A ferry flight

Aviation24.be

VLM : still growing

VLM..still growing