Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[Passenger]

Dear Passenger, despite that their systems may have changed I have friends complain about their staff travel prices to Asia just last week, they finally chose for one of the ME3.

Maybe you can explain your friends that Brussels Airlines isn't flying to Asia with own metal, meaning that the staff discount is limited to the margin set in the codeshare contract? If that contract allows staff discount, that is: I've seen codesharings that forbit any discount.

[RTM]

Flanker,... your claim was they were flying FR... and now they are flying FR to Asia...?

But lets stick to the topic...

[Flanker2]

Oh they fly FR as well. They brag about it on Facebook and such and then get flamed jokingly by their colleagues as traitors... happens all the time still now in fact it's a routinz. Do I need to open a topic for you everytime that happens, with the person in question's profile print screened on here?

Well Passenger, I remind you that SN is part of Star Alliance and LH Group.

It's funny that everytime that we remind about SN's now eternal losses and point to the actual problems that are causing or at least supporting them, we get personal attacks.
I don't mind that Passenger wants to push us away from the subject, only for another fanboy to accuse you of being off-topic.
In the meanwhile none of the so-called SN fanboys have actually posted any message in support or denial of the wikipedia entries that the resident journalist so kindly pointed us to.
Yes, you want SN to thrive, but without having to do anything for it. I've been advocating positive investments into SN since more than 5 years, even hinting to LH as a potential obstacle for that.

What happens now? LH is being an obstacle for SN's development.
SN is, as has been predicted before, beign attacked in all its markets including its own home market.
The next steps are SN running out of money, LH moving the Africa operations to FRA or MUC.

But you seem to be ok with that thought, because SN still has a bank full of money, a fleet of owned airplanes that can serve as collateral, and most importantly a miracle formula to survive in this mess.
I'm actually impressed that they made it this far, even though it's mostly thanks to the Flemish government's 100 million euro present. It was that or another wave of jobless people...
But now it's real, there is no Flemish loans anymore. SN can't make any mistakes anymore, they need to change their course and build a sustainable hub.

[sn26567]

I'm actually impressed that they made it this far, even though it's mostly thanks to the Flemish government's 100 million euro present.

Never heard of that. Don't you confuse with a 100 million loan from Lufthansa?

[Flanker2]

I'm referring to the below start-up loan. It's federal, iso Flemish.

http://trends.knack.be/economie/nieuws/ ... 778081.htm

I expect that they will fund last year's losses with the remaining 50 millions, so the actual cadeau is 125 Million.

See below for more info, under SN Air Holdings.
http://www.sfpi-fpim.be/sites/default/f ... ed_web.pdf

The LH 100 millions were meant to invest in SN's longhaul according to FPIM... All they added was IAD and Cameroon frequencies from LX in 2013, and SN didn't need 100 millions for that. Either the FPIM is lied to or they are posting factually questionnable information on their report.

[OO-ITR]

I think this information on Wiki is complete bullocks.

First of all where will find SN that many A321s? It is not that there are so many on the market.

Secondly why would SN replace 13 aircraft by 19 where 10 of them are double capacity of what an RJ100 can hold?

[Inquirer]

A couple of weeks ago, somebody posted a rumour about A350s on the Wikipedia site, and now this...
Each time a long and in hindsight pointless discussion followed. I don't know who posts all those rumours, but I am starting to feel somewhat tempted to think that maybe somebody from overhere is a bit too eager to discuss an idea of his, and is thus creating a pretext to be able to start a discussion on it which is fine for me, but can we at least try to keep this topic clean of speculation and personal preferences and limit it's scope to just tracking the official fleet evolution and all hat goes with it? Browsing this forum, I notice there is a dedicated topic for speculation on this, so I suggest this to be moved there, at least until confirmation follows (if ever). Thank you.

[convair]

There has always been a lot of speculation on this topic that naturally lends itself to that. And contributors are entitled to have their preferences, aren't they?
I find they make this topic a lively one. Let's not be too serious: no one is aiming at a Science Nobel prize here. At least I hope so.

[nordikcam]

More to follow as the expansion isn't over yet...

New airbus is arrived in SN fleet.
But what do u mean by those words...expansion isn't over ?? Long haul or medium haul ? Thx !

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

BTW the rj85 is still active on the contrary of the rumous,.. Saw him landing yesterday..

cXb

[CTBke]

RJ85 is already re-used in operations for a couple of months now

[convair]

I still don't fully understand why SN uses a mix of A319s/A320s. Besides DMD and TLV for which A320s are used almost exclusively, they use both types rather indifferently.
Wouldn't it be better to use a few A321s for some medium haul destinations and for the charter-like weekend flights?

[RoMax]

I still don't fully understand why SN uses a mix of A319s/A320s. Besides DMD and TLV for which A320s are used almost exclusively, they use both types rather indifferently.
Wouldn't it be better to use a few A321s for some medium haul destinations and for the charter-like weekend flights?

Why use a small sub-fleet of A321's which are fit for only a few routes, instead of a larger sub-fleet of A320's which (just like the B734's in the past) can be used on several higher volume routes and have a capacity that's better fit for charter operations? SN operates 6 A320's, they are long past the stage of operating the A320 on 2-3 routes. Destinations such as Rome, Paris, Vienna, Nice, Geneva, Lisbon, etc. also receive the A320 on a frequent base, the A321 would be too large for several of these flights.

Having a A319/A320 mix gives much more flexibility than an A319/A321 mix and also as I previously said, the A320 is a much better fit for SN's charter operations.

[Flanker2]

I think that it's a fair question convair.
SN is not exclusive in using the Airbus this way, many airlines do this including Easyjet.

Operationally, given the short range on which they are used at SN, I don't see any performance advantages for the A319 over the A320.
In the financial department, the A319 saves you a few pennies in dead weight and hence fuel, a few pennies in leasing and a few pennies in maintenance.
At the end of a year, on a fleet of 20 aircraft, this could easily add up to 10 millions.

The additional seats of the A320's only make sense if you can fill all of those additional seats at 12 Euro's each, without reducing the yields on the rest of the tickets, the last part being the most complicated to achieve.
If you have the volume on a route, the A320 is definitely the better option, and otherwise you nickle & dime your costs using the A319.

I think that FR has a competitive edge over U2 in that they have a large fleet of larger aircraft, while the B738 has a fuel burn that is similar to the A319.

In SN's fleet, a few A321's can be useful, but I doubt that they will add them.
The A321 is a serious step-up in capacity and there aren't many available cheap on the market as they tend to be picked up quickly.

[convair]

Thank you both for very clear and rational answers/comments.

[Pocahontas]

I recently heard in the hallway that the Avro will stay Beyond 2016. This is getting ridiculous!

[RTM]

Looks like we can expect OO-SSH to join the fleet sometime.

http://www.skystef.be/Belgian-regi-p3.htm

Airbus A319 msn 2925

[tolipanebas]

That is correct.
Another A319 is going to join the fleet this autumn, to replace the last RJ85 and provide much needed additional capacity; 2 more A319 have already been secured too for next spring, btw.

[Pocahontas]

So 2 Xtra 319 but no phase-out is that correct?

[convair]

I recently heard in the hallway that the Avro will stay Beyond 2016. This is getting ridiculous!

Is there any confirmation of that? It would make sense if growth is faster than the planned replacement.