Hi all,
Weeks ago I said to myself "If this interesting topic reaches page 10 I'll join the club".
I keep my own words :wave: .
What an effort and patience. Congratulations :thumbsup2:
Cheers
Rayman
[/quote]
Jet Airways to BRU ?
Moderator: Latest news team
I "almost" agree with you; at this stage an appropriate market approach and GDS access are a must.Jean_EVA_Air wrote:I wonder how you can sell tickets and do your job in a good manor if you still haven't completed your reservation and sales team in Belgium... i mean SOME PREPARATION!Atlantis wrote:For the moment you can not book tickets for these flights. Even there is no announcement of the new flight to Newark via Bru. If they want to start at 23 June it's gone be time to set this on the route map.
Etihad has been looking for people for months and are already team but Jet Airways i dunno, let's see...
Still it's not to underestimate the uncertainty and developments of the last weeks, AMS option, the allegations from the US (fake) Jet Airways Inc. and bureaucrats delay.
How can you (pre)sell an uncertain product? Looking for troubles and unpopular market impact at start?
On the other hand, with such huge catchment’s areas as India and NYC I shouldn’t be worried at all. High season is close and demand is not low. Even a last minute approach will fill enough and satisfactory from both ends, which is the targeted bulk of traffic.
Belgian sales should fill up (I would have opted for AMS to be honest or even EIN to be strategic and extreme).
Moreover it’s not unusual that the Indian embassy in BRU has played her role in this and I guess that the Indian community in Belgium and cross-border is already informed and kept updated.
Price (yield) will be the ultimate weapon.
Etihad delay due to postponed A/C delivery has given breath to the start-up of organizational structure and market approach; otherwise I believe they would have been also rushing, with the difference that EY catchment’s areas and potentials are quite unlike from 9W.
Just speculations.
Greetings
Rayman
Not if they're not allowed to advertise the route due to the lack of some signatures in the US (which is/was the case). However if this is happening one can wonder why BRU made an announcement as it would be better to wait untill the airline itself makes the statement.I "almost" agree with you; at this stage an appropriate market approach and GDS access are a must.
Why do you need your own sales team in Belgium when you've one in London (a GSA would be fine)? It's not that they have to fill many seats on the A340 as they focus on the EWR-BOmM traffic and any local traffic ex BRU is a bonus. The only thing you need is a stationmanager, but that will probably be an Indian, thus no staffing problems here.I wonder how you can sell tickets and do your job in a good manor if you still haven't completed your reservation and sales team in Belgium... i mean SOME PREPARATION!
Because traffic ex BRU is not a bonus, but a strategic fill-up.Why do you need your own sales team in Belgium when you've one in London (a GSA would be fine)? It's not that they have to fill many seats on the A340 as they focus on the EWR-BOmM traffic and any local traffic ex BRU is a bonus. The only thing you need is a stationmanager, but that will probably be an Indian, thus no staffing problems here.
Focus on both ends (BOM-EWR) doesn't mean traffic in overflow.
Shall we say an optimistic 80% main markets contribution (untill the non-stop comes)? Then there's still 20% over. Considering 12 weekly opposit direction flights, it means on yearly base 30.000 O&D over capacity (60.000 legs to sell). It's not peanuts.
In this picture I do not believe in a UK team managing a GSA from LON with the remote control.
A GSA is good for off-line presence or light commercial coverage, but not for heavy on-line and with such a product/capacity to fill actively.
A solid local sales team/management instead has the potential and the motivation to fill-up part or most of this space; of course only looking into Belgium won't be enough, if they also take a look prospecting a few miles northern and eastern they will have good chance for good score.
Bye
Rayman
Press release Jet Airways (India) Ltd. 12 Jun 2005:
Mumbai, June 12, 2005: Jet Airways (India) Limited has engaged the services of a leading American law firm, Paul Weiss ,Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP to initiate legal charges against the President & CEO, Ms. Nancy Heckerman of Jet Airways Inc.,
It may be recalled that Ms. Nancy Heckerman had made scandalous, scurrilous and baseless allegations regarding alleged links of Jet Airways (India) Limited with undesirables in a letter of objection to the US Department of Transportation.
The primary motivation of Jet Airways Inc. in filing the objection arises out of a trade name registered by them in 2004 that is currently being addressed before the US Patent and Trademark office.
Jet Airways Inc. has no airline operating permit and it has no aircraft.
Mr. S.K. Datta, Executive Director, Jet Airways (India) Ltd. has now stated that “ Mr. Martin London, a partner in the Litigation Department of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP, will lead the legal team on behalf of Jet Airways (India) Ltd. in this matter. His practice encompasses broad litigation issues domestically and internationally, involving both criminal and civil matters.
Mr. London is a Fellow of the American College of Trial Lawyers, and a recipient of the Award for Outstanding Oral Advocacy, presented by the Office of the Appellate Defender.”
About Jet Airways (India) Ltd.
Jet Airways currently operates a fleet of 36 classic and next generation Boeing 737-400/700/800/900 aircraft, 3 A340-300 E aircraft and 8 modern ATR72-500 Turboprop aircraft. With an average age of a little over 4.6 years, the airline has one of the youngest aircraft fleet in the world. Approximately 24,000 passengers travel daily on Jet Airways' 275 flights to 47 destinations that span the length and breadth of India and beyond, including Colombo in Sri Lanka, Kathmandu in Nepal, Singapore. Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and London Heathrow, UK.
Since inception in May 1993 until end-May 2005, Jet Airways has flown over 53.4 million passengers.
JET AIRWAYS
PUBLIC RELATIONS
NEW DELHI & MUMBAI, INDIA
JUNE 12, 2005
Mumbai, June 12, 2005: Jet Airways (India) Limited has engaged the services of a leading American law firm, Paul Weiss ,Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP to initiate legal charges against the President & CEO, Ms. Nancy Heckerman of Jet Airways Inc.,
It may be recalled that Ms. Nancy Heckerman had made scandalous, scurrilous and baseless allegations regarding alleged links of Jet Airways (India) Limited with undesirables in a letter of objection to the US Department of Transportation.
The primary motivation of Jet Airways Inc. in filing the objection arises out of a trade name registered by them in 2004 that is currently being addressed before the US Patent and Trademark office.
Jet Airways Inc. has no airline operating permit and it has no aircraft.
Mr. S.K. Datta, Executive Director, Jet Airways (India) Ltd. has now stated that “ Mr. Martin London, a partner in the Litigation Department of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP, will lead the legal team on behalf of Jet Airways (India) Ltd. in this matter. His practice encompasses broad litigation issues domestically and internationally, involving both criminal and civil matters.
Mr. London is a Fellow of the American College of Trial Lawyers, and a recipient of the Award for Outstanding Oral Advocacy, presented by the Office of the Appellate Defender.”
About Jet Airways (India) Ltd.
Jet Airways currently operates a fleet of 36 classic and next generation Boeing 737-400/700/800/900 aircraft, 3 A340-300 E aircraft and 8 modern ATR72-500 Turboprop aircraft. With an average age of a little over 4.6 years, the airline has one of the youngest aircraft fleet in the world. Approximately 24,000 passengers travel daily on Jet Airways' 275 flights to 47 destinations that span the length and breadth of India and beyond, including Colombo in Sri Lanka, Kathmandu in Nepal, Singapore. Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia and London Heathrow, UK.
Since inception in May 1993 until end-May 2005, Jet Airways has flown over 53.4 million passengers.
JET AIRWAYS
PUBLIC RELATIONS
NEW DELHI & MUMBAI, INDIA
JUNE 12, 2005
[/quote]Rayman wrote:Hi all,Weeks ago I said to myself "If this interesting topic reaches page 10 I'll join the club".
I keep my own words :wave: .
What an effort and patience. Congratulations :thumbsup2:
Cheers Rayman
Indeed Rayman is late
Do you think Belgians waited for an indian carrier to fly to New York?
At same fare levels they will choose for what they are used to fly since SN had yo go. I do not see much strategic filling from Belgium.
Maybe Mumbai, maybe.
I still know the AI era to BRU in B707, they gave it up due lack of success.
I know also SN flying to BOM in B707 and DC10, also with limited success.
The only flights out of BRU to India that got a good load factor were to MAA Chennai, but that was mostly tourism.
So Rayman, you might have been right with your EIN suggestion.
Then please explain why many airlines at AMS (and I reckon at BRU) only have a GSA??? Even those with multiple weekly flights only have a GSA to do the sales.A GSA is good for off-line presence or light commercial coverage, but not for heavy on-line and with such a product/capacity to fill actively.
Sorry but 50 pax per flight isn't much. It will be very easy to get the 50 pax for BRU-EWR-BRU (they just have to copy at what SQ did at AMS). The 50 pax BOM bound are slightly more difficult, but given the fact that the Indian community probably can be reached efficiently out of London(I'm not familiar with the Indian situation, but in The Netherlands many ethnic communities have their own media and travel agents) you don't need a sales team in Belgium. The only reason for establishing a saleforce in Belgium if you intend to see Belgium (or Benelux) as a key market (or in the future). Moreover a sales team can consist of Indian expats only thus you don't need Belgian employees (and thus no adverts for employment)Then there's still 20% over. Considering 12 weekly opposit direction flights, it means on yearly base 30.000 O&D over capacity (60.000 legs to sell). It's not peanuts.
I must say this is probably the best I've ever heard someone describing what being an intermediate stop is. SQ The Netherlands never commented about what they felt when they were downgraded to an intermediate stop enroute to EWR. Fortunatly SIN-AMS-ORD failed so that they could still sell some seats to Asia (EWR flights were almost always full).Because traffic ex BRU is not a bonus, but a strategic fill-up
Are we going to reach page 11 
SN30952, thanks for sustaining my EIN speculation.
LJ, I’ll try to go by step:
1) That’s the choice of the airline whether they need/want to compete or not, according to market positioning (dominant ++, focus +, opportunistic -). A GSA is extremely super-opportunistic by definition.
2) The 50 pax a flight is meant in the most positive scenario, I’ve never seen 100% LF day in day out.
That’s why I stated that the Belgian market won’t be enough, and to catch traffic you have to prospect a few miles cross-border, and without sticking to the Indian community only. Only then you can score in fill-up, and how.
Moreover, eastbound does not only have to involve BOM but also beyond: the whole India, SIN, KUL, CMB, KTM (at the moment).
I’ll give you some (rounded) Dutch market potentials in O&D:
SIN 35.000
DEL 22.000
KUL 15.000
BOM 11.000
CMB 8.000
KTM 5.000
MAA 2.500
CCU 1.500
A piece of this pie can easily been brought down to BRU.
I do not have the potentials of the Ruhr area but I expect these to be quite consistent.
That's why I would have given dryly my preference to EIN i.o. BRU.
And let’s hope that in their expansion, 9W will also look at EAST as they look WEST, then you’ll need a tripledekker.
I do not see the benefit of an expat if there’s a qualified Belgian (or whatever local) to fulfill the job. Too expensive and understands a bit of the market/culture a couple of weeks before transfer elsewhere.
3) Fill-up is fill-up, fill what the big players can’t, thus strategic and not tactical (in commercial terms).
BTW, SQ in NL is in the top 10. Just because the local sales team is able to sell actively “some” seats to Asia (only BKK potentials 90.000).
Greetings,
Rayman
SN30952, thanks for sustaining my EIN speculation.
LJ, I’ll try to go by step:
1) That’s the choice of the airline whether they need/want to compete or not, according to market positioning (dominant ++, focus +, opportunistic -). A GSA is extremely super-opportunistic by definition.
2) The 50 pax a flight is meant in the most positive scenario, I’ve never seen 100% LF day in day out.
That’s why I stated that the Belgian market won’t be enough, and to catch traffic you have to prospect a few miles cross-border, and without sticking to the Indian community only. Only then you can score in fill-up, and how.
Moreover, eastbound does not only have to involve BOM but also beyond: the whole India, SIN, KUL, CMB, KTM (at the moment).
I’ll give you some (rounded) Dutch market potentials in O&D:
SIN 35.000
DEL 22.000
KUL 15.000
BOM 11.000
CMB 8.000
KTM 5.000
MAA 2.500
CCU 1.500
A piece of this pie can easily been brought down to BRU.
I do not have the potentials of the Ruhr area but I expect these to be quite consistent.
That's why I would have given dryly my preference to EIN i.o. BRU.
And let’s hope that in their expansion, 9W will also look at EAST as they look WEST, then you’ll need a tripledekker.
I do not see the benefit of an expat if there’s a qualified Belgian (or whatever local) to fulfill the job. Too expensive and understands a bit of the market/culture a couple of weeks before transfer elsewhere.
3) Fill-up is fill-up, fill what the big players can’t, thus strategic and not tactical (in commercial terms).
BTW, SQ in NL is in the top 10. Just because the local sales team is able to sell actively “some” seats to Asia (only BKK potentials 90.000).
Greetings,
Rayman
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Advisor
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Roger that RaymanRayman wrote:OK Advisor, ring them, for you it should be a local call.Advisor wrote:I hope 9W is reading all these posts here and making a strategy
All together we can give some profitable consultancy for let's say 1% of the generated turnover; which is far less than the 3-4% of a GSA bill.
Rayman
Aum Sweet Aum.
9w flight to EWR will begin before the end of july 
one month later....
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes.co ... 141422.cms
one month later....http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes.co ... 141422.cms
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I agree a bit with SNXXXXX about the little succes to be expected from pax boarding at BRU. We are reminded about the very strange flight of Sabena to Madras ( I remember in those days : What the hell are they doing in Madras?)
Anyway, a short look at their route map shows little asian connections, just Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. No Hong Kong, Chinese or Thai connections yet. I assume they will want to play the brittish card, going to Australia in the foothsteps of Emirates.
Let them order those A330 and B777 this week, and we will see how they will expand internationally.
Anyway, a short look at their route map shows little asian connections, just Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. No Hong Kong, Chinese or Thai connections yet. I assume they will want to play the brittish card, going to Australia in the foothsteps of Emirates.
Let them order those A330 and B777 this week, and we will see how they will expand internationally.
they got excellent conditions?
As far as I can extrapolate: there is no market for 50 pax BOM on a 6/7 or 7/7 basis out of BRU.Rayman wrote:...The
- 50 pax a flight is meant in the most positive scenario
- eastbound does not only have to involve BOM but also beyond: the whole India, SIN, KUL, CMB, KTM (at the moment).
Greetings, Rayman
SIN - KUL - etc, indeed dear Regi, have better connections via an European gateway. A transit via BOM is not a passnger's dream, but rather a nightmare, not only because it happens at night. BOM has no good reputation, neither have Indian police and customs = stay away. Europea, nor American travellers can not stand indian subcontinent officers' corruption. Let them choose, they rather pay more than to undergo such ordeal. India has a lot to do on that, before it can position itself as provider of fifth freedom carriers host.
Passengers like to leave from Europe and arrive at destination on the same flight.
I believe Jet's marketing dept knows, so its better to have a GSA that is renumerated proportional to the revenue it produce. A GSA pays itself.
The only reason they would fly via BRU is that they got excellent conditions. I would say no more.
When we look at the facts, can we come to the conclusion that this Jet airways flight would be nothing more or less than ...the BIMAN flights? Just with newer airplanes instead of the antique DC-10.
Same shaby airports in India, a strange mentality, a curse to the Brussels airport staff (remember that remark of that Biman crew member when hydraulic oil came out of the landing gear :"That is normal"), but great food, and a unbeatable price. I took it once (and I decided it would remain like that) to BKK: 690 euro return in business class.
I have switched to arab carriers on price base. I am waiting for the Etihad flights. If this will come, bye bye Jet Airways.
Same shaby airports in India, a strange mentality, a curse to the Brussels airport staff (remember that remark of that Biman crew member when hydraulic oil came out of the landing gear :"That is normal"), but great food, and a unbeatable price. I took it once (and I decided it would remain like that) to BKK: 690 euro return in business class.
I have switched to arab carriers on price base. I am waiting for the Etihad flights. If this will come, bye bye Jet Airways.