Vueling L.F%

jbeltran1973 · Post by **jbeltran1973** » 24 May 2005, 18:25

Bad news for Vueling. Bad L.F% in April....

Bye Bye Vueling....

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 24 May 2005, 18:33

Hi jbeltran1973,

Could you tell us more please ?

Bad LF's what does that mean ? an average of 20% or 60% can you give us some facts and figures ?

Chris

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 24 May 2005, 19:11

@jbeltran: or you say A and B, or you say nothing.

What's the purpose of a "bye bye VLG"-topic without any information.

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 24 May 2005, 19:16

@jbeltran,

It's very childish what you are writing. Daily are there thousands of people who are working for an airline, it's not nice when some "people" are writing something. Think first before you are writing this.

A318 · Post by **A318** » 24 May 2005, 22:06

One month lower load factors don't mean anything.
Vueling is well known for it's good service and excellent aircrafts and personell. Did they refuse you to board or something seen your meaning less said negative comment?

Erwin

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 25 May 2005, 00:51

jbeltran1973 wrote:
Bye Bye Vueling....

I'm not going to make any words durty on this matter. It is just
:dammit: stupid. I just can't believe anybody making such stupid comments and even based on nothing

jbeltran1973 · Post by **jbeltran1973** » 25 May 2005, 09:10

AENA April 2005 Data -->

VLG L.F --> about 50%. All new routes under 50%...

Of course I'm stupid, because I was working in a big investment company and I joined to VLG in September...now there are rumours about the need of extra investments for this year or maybe some staff will be fired..

MKAirlines · Post by **MKAirlines** » 25 May 2005, 09:14

Rumours

FlightSimCrew · Post by **FlightSimCrew** » 25 May 2005, 10:41

Can we see an official statement of the Vueling loadfactors an article or a link to a table this would make it more clear.

I have and update on the most recent Vueling loads for BRU ops

BCN : Jan 30% - Feb 36% - Mar 43% - Apr 40% - as from May reducing to 1x daily so this should improve a bit..

VLC : Jan 41% - Feb 50% - Mar 62% - Apr 51%

They seem to be having some good operations on a couple of days (mostly Fridays and SUndays) but especially tuesday and thursday are catastrophic day of the weeks for them. If you take alook at how much they are selling those seats they can hardly make a return with those loadfactors..

Knowing that they put a whole aircraft on the BRU market and they are deucing their presence here (- 1x daily flight) they are admitting that they are suffering on this market.. Strange that they donttry to get into London or Frankfurt, even AMS, much bigger markets.

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 25 May 2005, 11:07

FlightSimCrew wrote: Knowing that they put a whole aircraft on the BRU market and they are deucing their presence here (- 1x daily flight) they are admitting that they are suffering on this market.. Strange that they donttry to get into London or Frankfurt, even AMS, much bigger markets.

First of all, the reason (official reason) for reducing from two to one the BRU-BCN route is because the flight has been replaced to fly BCN-LIS-BCN.

Secondly, they don't have a whole aircraft flying the BRU market. The plane arrives at BCN in the afternoon at 17.25 local time. THe next flight this plane flies is or BCN-Palma or BCN-LIS.

When you currently look at the tickets sold for June, I can tell you that Vueling has already sold more tickets then Virgin. And by the way, if you say that Vueling can't survive with selling these cheap tickets, then you should also mention that Virgin Express can't survive. They have the same kind of prices and the loadfactors are slightly higher for Virgin then for Vueling. But this is easy because Virgin usus 737's where you can fit less people in it. Also a A320 is more fuel efficient then the old 737's of Virgin. So if Vueling has 100 pax on board (max pax 180) that makes a loadfactor of 55% and if Virgin has this it makes a load of (max pax in 737 is 147 pax) 68%. But with the more fuel efficiency of new A320 Vueling is making same or even higher profit on these flights as Virgin with the higher loads. So comparing the loads for telling if an airline is doing well is not a good choice. Only official numbers of profit or loss can tell us the real story here.

Advisor · Post by **Advisor** » 25 May 2005, 11:17

jbeltran1973 wrote:Bad news for Vueling. Bad L.F% in April....

Bye Bye Vueling....

:shoot: jbeltran1973 if u write again in mono syllables Remember i have been :contract: by many Luchtakers to take care of you :fight: So remember, I'm also Don Vito Corleon at times.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 25 May 2005, 21:10

The loads are indeed not looking great especially for a LCC which needs high loads to be profitable.

Since you are working for VLG jbeltran1973, I tend to believe your sources about the loads

But it's sad to see employees like you who are so un motivated

Anyway I hope that VLG will be able to survive the tough period.

waldova wrote:
First of all, the reason (official reason) for reducing from two to one the BRU-BCN route is because the flight has been replaced to fly BCN-LIS-BCN.

Yeah, but as you know "official" reasons aren't always the real ones

Also a A320 is more fuel efficient then the old 737's of Virgin. So if Vueling has 100 pax on board (max pax 180) that makes a loadfactor of 55% and if Virgin has this it makes a load of (max pax in 737 is 147 pax) 68%. But with the more fuel efficiency of new A320 Vueling is making same or even higher profit on these flights as Virgin with the higher loads.

I don't agree with you. They might be doing more money on the flight itself, but since VLG has factory new planes they certainly have much higher leasing rates for their planes compared to the old B737's of TV. So in fact when you take everything into consideration VLG might end up with less profit than TV.

Only official numbers of profit or loss can tell us the real story here.

That's totally right !!

Chris

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 25 May 2005, 22:07

Avro wrote:
waldova wrote: Also a A320 is more fuel efficient then the old 737's of Virgin. So if Vueling has 100 pax on board (max pax 180) that makes a loadfactor of 55% and if Virgin has this it makes a load of (max pax in 737 is 147 pax) 68%. But with the more fuel efficiency of new A320 Vueling is making same or even higher profit on these flights as Virgin with the higher loads.

I don't agree with you. They might be doing more money on the flight itself, but since VLG has factory new planes they certainly have much higher leasing rates for their planes compared to the old B737's of TV. So in fact when you take everything into consideration VLG might end up with less profit than TV.

I was about to answer this one! yes I'm fully agree with you, Avro.

@jbeltran1973: Can you tell us precisely why you dislike to work for VLG? Is it a question of money or are the work conditions bads? Do you fear to be fired?

Please answer me.

THX

Seb.

Post by **airbuske** » 25 May 2005, 23:25

Is there someone who knows how Virgin Express is doing it on the Brussels-Valencia flight?

About the LF factors

1) I tought that I have read an article where they wrote that the
Vueling routes VLC -BRU/CDG where the best off all ?

2) I never saw in Belgium an advertising for Vueling
except a small one in Metro.
When I was in Barcelona a saw a lot of ads on all the busses.

3) The timtable was published quiet late , even now you can book until September while you can book at Virgin Express and Iberia already until April 2006

What do you think?

FlightSimCrew · Post by **FlightSimCrew** » 26 May 2005, 16:08

@ waldova : try to be objective when making replies i.s.o. figuring out some data... how would you know how many tickets nor Vueling nor Virgin Express have sold for June.. I dont really care, were we look at is the past data and I can say that TV has realized a 53% market share on VLC in April carrying 121 pax per flight versus only 93 on Vueling aircraft... these are hard facts confirmed by BRU statistical airport !

Indeed they replaced BRU BCN with a BCN LIS which I think is a smart move, there is a massive Portugese-Spanish market in MAD and BCN to capture and their risk profile is much less compared to BRU... That is why I dont understand they do not operate London? Its not becuase of Ryanair because they do compete on Milan and Rome.

I must agree with you that a A320 is more fuel efficient but these are the competitive advantages of TV.

1. They operate with derated engines saving more fuel + saving on eruonavigation charges.
2. TV has reduced MTOW on their aircraft giving them less range but lower charges on landing and eurocontrol.
3. TV has older but cheaper fleet (lease) than Vueling to operate.
4. Downside is somewhat higher cost in maintenance and A/C downtime.

After doing some thourough studies I had to conclude that Vueling operates on about a 10-15% higher sector cost than TV although their seat cost (Vueling has more capacity) is comparable. But seat cost doesnt help you if you operate @ 50/60% loadfactor.

Best thing for both carriers is that they should be wise and start bringing the prices up i.s.o. killing each other with the price war. Statistics show that there is enough market for 4x weekly TV and 4x weekly VY flights if both carriers can live beside each other..

lets look and see what the future brings

FlightSimCrew · Post by **FlightSimCrew** » 26 May 2005, 16:15

@ airbuske

TV is claiming to be profitable on the route although I beleive they are suffering some losses... prices are way tocheap to reach a profitable loadfactor at 70% ...

Indeed the artivle stated that VY is doing good but as I said before we should not always believe what we read in the newspapers do we... if BRU is indeed one of their best performing routes I'm scared that they will soon be out of business..

lets wait and see their financial statements. I think they will in 3/4 months start a good news show -> how well they are performing and how good their summer season was, and I predict that in Oct/Nov they will float the company making a lot of money (for the shareholders).

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 26 May 2005, 17:10

@ flightsimcrew:

I think you really might be wrong here. They main shareholders are the people behind Jet Blue which is one of main cariers in the US. They want to achieve the same thing with Vueling. They will for sure not sell Vueling. Just give Vueling some time. It is a new company since last year. Normally a company is not profitable even in the first years. You can't expect a new company to beat all the other companys who's name are already better known.
Let's just wait a year of two and see in two years how Vueling is doing.

Post by **sn26567** » 26 May 2005, 17:25

FlightSimCrew wrote:Best thing for both carriers is that they should be wise and start bringing the prices up i.s.o. killing each other with the price war. Statistics show that there is enough market for 4x weekly TV and 4x weekly VY flights if both carriers can live beside each other.

You are certainly right, FlightSimCrew, but I hope for you that DG Competition of the European Commission does not read you. That is the kind of "agreement" they do not like very much.

Post by **airbuske** » 26 May 2005, 17:59

Thank you Flightsimcrew for the answer.

On my flights with Virgin Express I has these LF

4/4 BRU- VLC : Loadfactor of 50 % on a 737-400
7/4 VLC - BRU: Loadfactor of 100 % on a 737-300

How was the Loadfactor before Virgin entered the BRU-VLC market?
I suppose better?

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