The Boeing/Airbus Subsidy battle just got really nasty

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 21 May 2005, 01:47

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.a ... 28209B0%7D

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 21 May 2005, 04:39

So the never ending story continues ...

Greetz,

Andries

ryanvsnow · Post by **ryanvsnow** » 21 May 2005, 05:17

So whats McDonnell Douglas doing these days?

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 21 May 2005, 10:21

ryanvsnow wrote:So whats McDonnell Douglas doing these days?

Hanging around, being part of Boeing.

As I said in the other topic, I do not see why economical perfectly viable companies (or bankrupt ones) should receive any financial benefits from their government. Both the companies make profits, and make fine products that are sold very well. So those companies should go out there, and secure the financing on their own. If Airbus had been cut of subsidies at the point where the company could survive alone, that whole trade-war would never have developed.

And if there were no subsidies involved, it would be better for competition. Since we can't chance the past, we should not make the same mistake twice, so now is the opportunity to stop with all those subsidies.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 21 May 2005, 10:33

Did you expect these guys ever would be friends? Some cheat officially, some try to hide it.
Some use bluntly political pressure to sell their stuff, some make financial conditions, one can not say no.
How did Sabena end up with so many aircraft?

vivek0072 · Post by **vivek0072** » 22 May 2005, 03:56

In a way the bill seems logical, what if Airbus declines to supply critical spares ? the planes will be worth the sheetal metal scrap

. But then Boeing cannot complain of launch aid for A350.

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 22 May 2005, 13:00

B744skipper wrote:[
And if there were no subsidies involved, it would be better for competition. Since we can't chance the past, we should not make the same mistake twice, so now is the opportunity to stop with all those subsidies.

Anyway both companies get subsidies, only from different channels. Even what is worse in my opinion is that Boeing doesn't has to repay anything. They just get contracts for new military planes and that's it. Airbus maybe gets aid for the developping of new aircraft but are obliged to pay everything back to who gave them that money once over the break even point. It would be almost impossible for a company to develop an A380 if there was no financial aid in the beginning. You can look at it more like a sort of loan.

I really think that for the futher technological development in aviation this all has to stay like it is.

vivek0072 · Post by **vivek0072** » 23 May 2005, 07:29

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 005_pg7_37

It got worse...

Boeing aircraft deal might threaten France’s support to India’s UNSC bid

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: India’s recent decision to buy American Boeing aircraft instead of French Airbus has landed it on the horns of dilemma.

Disappointed France has reminded India that it will retract from its earlier commitment to back Delhi’s demand for a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. France was one of the first nations to back India’s claim...................................

more in the link above

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 23 May 2005, 10:54

I think this is great - if one is going to try and use political clout to win orders then why shouldn;t the other? My question is were AI / Indian government so naive to think that behaving in the way they have they wouldn't annoy other security council members and thus not get in anyway???

Now they could be not in the security council and with a lot of planes at above the market rate (if what I have read elsewhere is to be believed).

JoeCanuck · Post by **JoeCanuck** » 23 May 2005, 11:06

Anyway both companies get subsidies, only from different channels. Even what is worse in my opinion is that Boeing doesn't has to repay anything. They just get contracts for new military planes and that's it. Airbus maybe gets aid for the developping of new aircraft but are obliged to pay everything back to who gave them that money once over the break even point. It would be almost impossible for a company to develop an A380 if there was no financial aid in the beginning. You can look at it more like a sort of loan.

Yes and no. Airbus only has to pay off the loans if they make money on a project. If it shows a loss, they pay nothing. Yes, Boeing makes money from military contrats, but so does EADS, (or whatever Airbus's parent company is).

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 23 May 2005, 15:11

I think you also forget about the serious Tax concessions Boeing receives from State authorities.....

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 23 May 2005, 19:00

Which was a response to Airbus that was receiving subsidies, thus creating unfair competition.

vc-10 · Post by **vc-10** » 23 May 2005, 20:26

So, by this rule the Pentagon cannot by any Airbus product because Boeing just have to accuse them of being 'given' money.....

GROW UP BOEING!!!!!!!!!
SO WHAT? MY 5 YEAR OLD SISTER SQUABLES LIKE THIS!!!!!!!

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 24 May 2005, 10:45

Its lucky the US doesn;t subsidise any of its industries at all isn't it? Oh no...wait a minute....

JoeCanuck · Post by **JoeCanuck** » 24 May 2005, 14:02

I really think they should go the other way with the subsidies thing; just say fsck it and let them go crazy on the things. That way, nobody can bitch about it. Think of the really cool things these companies could do if they had unlimited resources....

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 25 May 2005, 21:09

OUCH THIS COULD HURT

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/d53df92c-cd41- ... 511c8.html

A380-800 · Post by **A380-800** » 26 May 2005, 20:44

As long as both manufacturers are doing good work and great airplanes,
I am personally not complaining how much they get from their governments.

rgds,

A380-800

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 28 May 2005, 18:45

As long as both manufacturers are doing good work and great airplanes,
I am personally not complaining how much they get from their governments.

Amen to that!!!! I think that both companies have to face the fact that no matter what litigation goes on, they will BOTH receive aid in one way or another.

A380-800 · Post by **A380-800** » 29 May 2005, 00:33

Yes, sure. Both will get some aid. Airbus is officially asking and Boeing
is getting it through the military sector somehow. So, it makes no real
difference there.

Nevertheless, keep on making such good aircraft, Airbus and Boeing !

rgds,

A380-800

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 29 May 2005, 11:01

A380-800 wrote:Nevertheless, keep on making such good aircraft, Airbus and Boeing!

A really true word spoken, amen to that! :thumbsup2:

Aviation24.be

The Boeing/Airbus Subsidy battle just got really nasty

The Boeing/Airbus Subsidy battle just got really nasty

AI Boeing deal got worse.