onur in belgium

forever_boeing · Post by **forever_boeing** » 13 May 2005, 23:04

tcas c. I don't know b52 and I just found that infofrom from their page.For your info i didn't wrote that letter,if you read the end you will see! www.onurair.com.tr

A318 · Post by **A318** » 13 May 2005, 23:04

Some experiences are written on a dutch site. I will give you the link but most of the experiences are written in dutch.
Especialy the stories from people with negative experiences will give you the idea about what is more going wrong then the incidents you read in the media:
http://www.turbulentie.nl/dbase/show_ex ... Onur%20Air

Erwin

TCAS_climb · Post by **TCAS_climb** » 14 May 2005, 00:23

F_B,
I can't find the letter you pretend to have copied/pasted here. I checked when you first posted it, and I just checked it again. In fact I can't find a single sentence in English on this website ! I can't help but to wonder if this letter from the so-called president is genuine. But if it is, how come you can publish it here so quickly ?

The only things I found in English are the pictures of the shiny golden plates offered by the aircraft manufacturers stating the degree of "Technical Despatch Reliability", "Operational & Technical Reliability", etc. They don't prove anything from a flight safety point of view. Aircraft manufacturers don't do independant in-depth flight safety auditing of their customers. It's not that they don't care or don't do cooperate with the customer-airlines, it's just that this isn't their job. It's the job of the national aviation authority in charge of the oversight of the airline. You know, the one that issues the AOC and conducts regular inspections. These shiny plates basically mean that the aircraft had a good rate of on-time departures (and obviously never crashed). That doesn't impress me at all ! If Onur Air intends to go to court with just that, they're in for a major disappointment. They'll need much much more convincing evidence to lift the ban.

By the way, EASA requirements only apply to maintenance issues and aircraft type certification so far. JAR-OPS rules concerning air operator certification and airline operations are still in place. They won't be transposed into EU law and become EASA regulations for some time. To talk about EASA regulations in the context of flight operations is totally inaccurate, any pilot from a JAA airline knows that. I'm starting to ask myself if Mr Bagana really knows what he's talking about.

TCAS_climb · Post by **TCAS_climb** » 14 May 2005, 08:36

For your info, the ban now also extends to Switzerland and France.

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 14 May 2005, 11:48

airline war against dutch and erman airlinese vs turkey

News paper the telegraaf mentoned today that extra dutch and german charterflights are not welcome in turkey, the turkey`s govermnenet forbit this extra dutch and german flights.

Also Swiss banned Onur official this morning.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 14 May 2005, 12:13

TCAS_climb wrote:For your info, the ban now also extends to Switzerland and France.

France is now also banning them ?? And why isn't Belgium doing anything !!!!

I'm sorry but those planes aren't safer when they come to BRU rather than FRA, ZRH, AMS or any other place.

Chris

forever_boeing · Post by **forever_boeing** » 14 May 2005, 13:39

By the way like it is said at their letter that they are flying last 14 years and they were safe at the last winter season and one of a sudden they became unsafe for all the european authoroties before the summer season!it doesn't smell good...who wants to carry those passangers!?

LJ · Post by LJ » 14 May 2005, 16:50

By the way like it is said at their letter that they are flying last 14 years and they were safe at the last winter season and one of a sudden they became unsafe for all the european authoroties before the summer season!it doesn't smell good...who wants to carry those passangers!?

That's incorrect. Onur Air has been on a "watchlist" for more almost a year here in The Netherlands. The IVW acknowledged that things were improving in the last few months but suddenly they went downward. Thus they knew (or could have known) that they had no credit in The Netherlands, thus why they decided to act like they've done the past few weeks one can only guess.

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 14 May 2005, 18:05

Latest news:

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=8502

also:

http://www.home.nl/nieuws/binnenland/artikel/00172531

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 14 May 2005, 18:12

re

Martinair is using 747 on turkey routes:

MP will not convert its B747s as these will be deployed on the cargo routes to the Far East. The 747 is leased from Air Comet (EC-IPN) and Pullmantur and will do 4 flights this weekend (today to Dalaman and Bodrum, tomorrow two Antalya rotations)

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 14 May 2005, 19:39

Just on the ( german WDR ) news

Germany, Swiss and Dutch safety official gave an final warning to Flyair...
German, Swiss and the Netherlands decides to work closely in aviation safety the coming months.

© 101.5 das hitradio ( WDR )news

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 14 May 2005, 19:41

Who banned Onur?
It is clear now, Saturday afternoon following countries banned Onur:
The Netherlands (Nederland)
Germany
France
Switzerland (Non-EU)

Turkey does not allow the airlines of these countries to repatriate their citizens. Turkey wants to impose its own aircraft for this operation.
Turk airline to fight Europe ban
This might put some of the 40.000 tourists in danger, as unsafe aircraft might be used....
(For the ignorants: Turkey is not in Europe, but wants to join EU, but its attitude gives them high scores to be invited...)
LATEST:
Ankara has lifted a ban on extra German planes coming to Turkey to pick up stranded German tourists, Berlin's Foreign Ministry said on Friday. Meaning, when the Germans hit on the table, the Turks blink.

Bolukcu, Onur's boss said that the company would seek financial compensation for damages through the courts. Imagine this would turn out against him, and he has to compensate some 40 to 50.000 tourist under the EU regulations.....

B better shut is b... mouth, I think, and follow first the rules.

Meanwhile european tourists are reconsidering their next holidays: after the mishaps of turkish tourism companies and terror in Egypt, more friendly and safe skies will enjoy the preference. Cyprus would be one, but the Turks oppose to that vehemently.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 14 May 2005, 19:52

Hello

Indeed not a smart move.

But I can understand Onur Air's point , although they had to control better...no doubt they just hadn't got the money for it.

Now I'd like to say a last word about it.

Since that this news is kind a actual. I follow every OHY move at BRU (must say only the A300's or MD-80's , because they cause the troubles , OHY operates so many 320's and 321's they can continue their routes with those planes.)

But it seems that more A300's arrive than leave:

A short overview

(to make it easy I number the OHY's 1,2,3 so you can see wich plane landed and departed again.)

Friday 13/05

ARR---09:15---OHY---AB6 (1)
ARR---09:30---OHY---AB6 (2)
DEP---10:15---OHY---AB6 (1)
DEP---10:30---OHY---AB6 (2)
ARR---19:40---OHY---AB6 (3)---Grounded? (didn't leave BRU)
ARR---20:10---OHY---AB4 (4)---Grounded? (didn't leave BRU)

Saturday 14/05

ARR---16:45---OHY---AB6 (1)
DEP---17:45---OHY---AB6 (1)
ARR---19:30---OHY---AB6 (2)---Grounded? (didn't leave BRU)
ARR---20:00---OHY---AB4 (3)
DEP---21:00---OHY---AB4 (3)

So if we look at that than we can see that IF it is like mentioned here above , there would stand 2 Airbus A300-600's and 1 Airbus A300 B4 from Onur Air grounded at Brussels....maybe for extra control.

Lets hope they'll leave again , because if they keep going on like this...the whole fleet will be grounded within a week.

Here the Onur Air A300 fleet (any corrections or additions welcome)

TC-ONY Airbus A300-B2K (AB2)
TC-SGA Airbus A300-B2K (AB2)
TC-ONK Airbus A300-B4 (AB4)
TC-ONL Airbus A300-B4 (AB4)---out of service???
TC-ONT Airbus A300-B4 (AB4)
TC-ONU Airbus A300-B4 (AB4)
TC-OAA Airbus A300-600 (AB6)
TC-OAB Airbus A300-600 (AB6)
TC-OAG Airbus A300-600 (AB6)
TC-OAH Airbus A300-600 (AB6)
D-AIAW Airbus A300-600 (AB6)

So even if one A300-B2 is out of service and that one TC-ONL , than still they have a fleet of 9 or 10 A300's , 5 AB6 , and 4 AB2/AB4's.

Hope they don't ground them all , than we see less FLYING A300's a day

Best regards: Yannick

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 14 May 2005, 20:56

Bruspotter wrote:
I follow every OHY move at BRU (must say only the A300's or MD-80's , because they cause the troubles , OHY operates so many 320's and 321's they can continue their routes with those planes.)

If an airline isn't able to fly according to european standards with their A300 fleet they won't be able to do that with their A320's as well. I'm not talking about ageing fleets etc...Just to name one example: Do you really think that Onur doesn't update the Jeppesen charts for their A300 pilots but does it for the A320 pilots ???? No they don't.

But it seems that more A300's arrive than leave:

So if we look at that than we can see that IF it is like mentioned here above , there would stand 2 Airbus A300-600's and 1 Airbus A300 B4 from Onur Air grounded at Brussels....maybe for extra control.

I don't think that there are any Onur planes grounded in BRU for the moment. You maybe made a mistake by reading the arrival and departure lists of biac. Can someone please confirm or deny this ?

Hope they don't ground them all , than we see less FLYING A300's a day

Well, I'm sorry Bruspotter but I disagree with you. Seeing A300's might be nice, but if they are unsafe they should all be grounded until the problems are solved. I'd rather see no A300 than A300's falling out of the sky with innocent tourists on board

Chris

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 14 May 2005, 20:59

TCAS_climb wrote:Any millionaire on the forum interested in starting a new charter airline ? There should be a need of capacity between Europe and Turkey in the following months, if not weeks, to replace a busted charter operator that never learned from it's mistakes.

Only if you are a turkish millionaire!

x-prise · Post by **x-prise** » 14 May 2005, 21:16

TCAS_climb wrote:Any millionaire on the forum interested in starting a new charter airline ? There should be a need of capacity between Europe and Turkey in the following months, if not weeks, to replace a busted charter operator that never learned from it's mistakes.

that is where Corendon Must gain HUGE growth i bet by the end of the year they may have doubled theyre fleet size if they decide to lease more A320s to transport those tourists and such from the area to turkey

Joeb · Post by **Joeb** » 14 May 2005, 21:37

i just heard fly air has recieve a final warning is this correct
if this is correct it maens more problems

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 14 May 2005, 21:45

x-prise wrote:that is where Corendon Must gain HUGE growth i bet by the end of the year they may have doubled their fleet size if they decide to lease more A320s to transport those tourists and such from the area to turkey

Figures show there are some 50.000 stranded tourists, in one week in Turkey. Logically the same number of passengers are standing in Europe, meaning they do not have a flight out. So roughly 100.000. In one month times 4.
Do you think x-prise, these and all the others who sufferend from the mishaps will promote that destination?
Do you really think the travel agencies will come again? Because these people worked for nothing: do you think they will advise their clients again the same problems. BTW, some of these travel agents are to blame: they did not work professionally. I wonder if the travel agent association did its job well? Did they issue warnings. Maybe some travel agents LZ-member could inform on that?

btw, is someone leases double as much aircraft, he indeed doubles his fleetsize... (dat is nogal wiedes, he!)

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 14 May 2005, 21:50

Joeb wrote:i just heard fly air has recieve a final warning is this correct
if this is correct it maens more problems

Flyair received today there final warning from German, Swiss and Dutch safety boards. According to German news.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 14 May 2005, 22:51

Hello

Well indeed a lot of troubles now.

And Chris. First I thought too that I read it wrong at the departures schedule , but I triple and even 4-checked it and it was always the same. What does is possible that those flights only bring tourists IN and go empty back , in that case they probably wont schedule the empty return flights.

Didn't know it was that kind a problem that even the flightcharts were THAT bad...and indeed as I read the English of the cabin-crew isn't good enough , neither the emergency-case training. And improve THAT can take a VERY long time I guess , maybe a half year for sure? Shouldn't know.

Well, I'm sorry Bruspotter but I disagree with you. Seeing A300's might be nice, but if they are unsafe they should all be grounded until the problems are solved. I'd rather see no A300 than A300's falling out of the sky with innocent tourists on board icon_exclaim.gif

Yes , ofcourse , in that case you don't understand me for 100% , although I'm not always THAT clear.

Ofcourse crashes are not something that should be encouraged. Ofcourse they should ground them if the problem gets to dangerous. But what I meant that is that I hope that it doesn't goes to that....I hope they ARE safe enough so they can do their last operations in bringing in all those European tourists in , and than they can restructure again , start training of crew again etc...so it might be handy to decrease the number of operations , and improve them , and in mean time trying to improve the whole airline mentality.

And if Fly Air has got it's final warning I guess it's Christal clear. Either the Turkish airlines , sucks like hell if it concerns service and safety and crew-training or it are really the technical problems of the A300 that starts to get worser so they might be banned out of aerospace?

Hope they can fix them all.

Best regards: Yannick

Aviation24.be

onur in belgium

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Who is to blame?

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