onur in belgium

LJ · Post by LJ » 12 May 2005, 20:52

I learn now, Onur is also out of Germany. And that was their biggest market.
We are waiting to hear from the belgian authorities now.

Didn't the European Civil Aviation authorities decided 9after the Flash Airlines incident) that a ban in one EU country will automatically result in a ban in the whole of the EU????? If not I fear that the Onur will go after transporting the English/Italian soccer fans for the Championship Final in Istanbul in two weeks time.

maaspotter · Post by **maaspotter** » 12 May 2005, 20:54

Hi all,

• Maastricht; 1 onur a300 had to try for 3 times to become airborne at the very end of the runway.
• Maastricht, 1 onur plane had problems with breaking at the runway; 1 engine reverse did not work, and one of the airbrakes had an error on the same time, result that the plane almost overrun the runway.
• Maastricht, 1 Onur plane had to abort the take off due engine problems on both engines.
Some of the cabincrew did nt speak good english, some off the cabin crew was not good trained for safety course A300.
Pilots using expired naviagation and airport charts

Wonder how they made up these things!
Point 1, When was this??? This year never an Onur plane aborted departure two times! Don't even know if they ever aborted once a takeof
point 2, partly correct, Onur A300 had problems with landing, 1 engine reverse did not work (this tuesday), the plane didn't by far reach the end of the runway!
Point 3, Nonsense, didn't happen in the last year, before that, maybe, some time, a couple of years ago, but my memory isn't that good to remind that!

I think the Onur Air stuff is all blown up (or how do you say it) by the media, oke the planes are not to good, but it's nonsense to just make up some facts about abborted takeofs etc, why didn't they make up a story about a A300 what went fishing in the ocean or something like that.....

greetz

Rob

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 12 May 2005, 20:56

Point 1: this happend last week according to the broad cast sources
Point 3 : read this ( in dutch ) http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=8431

I just reply the news on the radio... and i also knew that the groningen overrun incident was last year, but i just sad it before, i quote the radio broadcast.... nothing more.......nothing last. I hope you understands that ( and we also both know that media and airline industry are not understanding each other ).

Fact is, that Onur is banned in the Netherlands and Germany, and i think this safety boards have good reasons for that, and not take the decision after hearing the radio news.... 2 countrys banned tha airline, not just 1 before people start to think that holland had to start this for protecting there own fleet.......

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 12 May 2005, 21:11

V-Bird wrote:@ Avro: i see your point off view from the beginning of this topic!

Nice to see you've also understood me aswell, but I was actually talking to Fons

No that the Netherlands and Germany banned Onur !! When will the rest of the EU follow ?

Chris

Post by **luchtzak** » 12 May 2005, 21:11

The following sounds very worrying:

v-bird wrote:Some of the cabincrew did nt speak good english, some off the cabin crew was not good trained for safety course A300.
Pilots using expired naviagation and airport charts

when airlines like to safe money they first do it on safety-related items as it's less noticed by passengers:

- reducing safety training,
- hiring less skilled people who don't speak English fluently, you can pay them less. Besides the fluently English speaking flight attendants will normally go to the national carrier Turkish Airlines!
- don't do many efforts to update airport charts (Jepessen-charts are expensive), I know an airline who have a full team of dedicated people who update those maps and charts daily!

It's a good call that the Dutch Authorities perform spotchecks and it's not to preserve their own Dutch chartercompanies. It's for the sake and the safety of passengers and crew flying to and from the Netherlands!

maaspotter · Post by **maaspotter** » 12 May 2005, 21:12

Hi veebee,

Your point 3, is what I mean with my point 2...
I think they just took the single accident that happened at MST, with the A300 TC-ONY, that happend last tuesdaymorning around 10.00, and splitted it into three different accidents, and made up some things to made look it bad!

Tuesdaymorning, the plane had problems with the thrustreverser on one of its engines, for that reason the plane bumped onto the runway and flew up again in the sky, to land 50 meters further again, it came to stop long before the end of the runway... The firebregade immediately went to the A300, but the pilot said everything was fine, and they taxied to the apron for a check at the engine! (Een klep moest opnieuw bijgesteld worden, weet niet hoe je dat in het engels zegt).

That's all, no further accidents at MST!

EDIT:
Indead Luchtzak, it is very worying they don't update there charts etc (if that stuff offcourse isn't also made up by the media). If that really is so, then I ever more would like to see them dissapear forever! But hey, what's the point, if they go banckrupt or something like that, next week another one is comming, with the same planes, same employee and staff etc, and in a couple of years, we have the same problems

Post by **luchtzak** » 12 May 2005, 21:14

maaspotter wrote:That's all, no further accidents at MST!

How do you know that for sure? Have you been at the airport all the time, maybe the incidents happened at night or early in the morning?

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 12 May 2005, 21:16

however, according to the press release, the plane stood almost for an hour at the end of the runway for examination, the pax where not allowed to disembark the airplane......... ( i just reply the news )

Thanks for luchtzak to see my point off vieuw..................... i hope it will happen again ( i know that i am not popular here and its my own fault

)

maaspotter · Post by **maaspotter** » 12 May 2005, 21:19

Hi luchtzak,

No I wasn't there all the time, but Onur's doesn't fly that much at MST (About 25 flights have been at MST this year), and I and the other spotters know a lot of people who work at the airport, including some people in the tower and on the ground! Sow if something bad happens, we know it!

And to reply to the last message of veebee,
guess the media finds it funny to make up things, they better check there info next time.
That time, I was there, the plane landed, stood at the end of the runway, at most for 5 minutes and taxied back!

by the way, I don't have anything to you guys, just to the media

Post by **luchtzak** » 12 May 2005, 21:23

maaspotter wrote:Indead Luchtzak, it is very worying they don't update there charts etc (if that stuff offcourse isn't also made up by the media). If that really is so, then I ever more would like to see them dissapear forever! But hey, what's the point, if they go banckrupt or something like that, next week another one is comming, with the same planes, same employee and staff etc, and in a couple of years, we have the same problems

We should have a European database that tracks all checks performed in Europe. A warning in country A, a final warning in country B and a possible ban for the entire Europe. That's the only fair way to deal with airlines that don't follow the rules!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 12 May 2005, 21:23

Ok ok. But even if it didn't used the entire runway and even if it didn't stay 1 hour on the runway, it doesn't solve Onur's saftey problems.

It's a fact now, and I'm happy to see that the media is broadcasting this like that.

Airlines which are unsafe shouldn't be kept on a secret list. Those airlines should be made public so that everyone knows they shouldn't fly with them.

By hiding the facts you help those unsafe airlines, since innocent people will continue to fly them until the fatal crash happens, but then it is too late.

Chris

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 12 May 2005, 21:24

Accordin to somebody of the firedepartment ( my neighbour ) she was standing at the end of the runway, one B747 of cargolux was forced to go to the wait area.........

Onur has at this time ( including the wetleases to fly air ) almost 1 daily flight ( sometimes like last tuesday and today 2 dailyflights to mst )

But i like youre statement, i realy like you ( and all the others )

maaspotter · Post by **maaspotter** » 12 May 2005, 21:38

Hihi,

Cargolux just departed two minutes before the Onur arrived

I don't mind if they just went away and dissapeared forever, they still have had a couple of really serious incidents, what could have been the cause of a much bigger accident!

Let's hope they won't fly again with these planes...

I wonder who "stole" the safetycards from the planes

must be all the spotters who are collectors

But i like youre statement, i realy like you ( and all the others )

8)

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 12 May 2005, 21:42

Last tuesday there were 2 cargolux flights, the last one was delayed ( she had to be there in the early morning )........

But i still like you

8)

maaspotter · Post by **maaspotter** » 12 May 2005, 21:50

Yup I saw both of the Cargolux flights,

Here why the Cargolux715 had to wait:
CLX719 (B747 Emirates), arrived 15 minutes before the Onur Air,
CLX715 (B747 Cargolux) already pushed backwards on the taxiway, to make place for the CLX719 which just came in.
Pskovavia An26 already requested pushback, and taxied to the runway while CLX719 was backtracking, the An26 had to cross the runway and wait at the other side.
CLX719 backtracked the runway and parked at cargo.
The Pskovavia departed runway 22 after that, followed by the CLX715.
After that Onur A300 landed.

all traffic came in on runway 22 and departed runway 22

and I like you to

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 12 May 2005, 21:56

hahahaha well i think my and the media sources are wrong.......... but i really think that the dutch and german safety inspections have really good sources!

When youre living in Limburg, we have to drink a beer! ( ore 2 ore 3....)

maaspotter · Post by **maaspotter** » 12 May 2005, 22:08

When youre living in Limburg, we have to drink a beer! ( ore 2 ore 3....)

Hahahahahaha, I live in Limburg, in Beek

That's why I spend sow much time at MST :dance: the best airport of the Benelux :kvole:

Now let's get back on topic...

royke777 · Post by **royke777** » 12 May 2005, 22:10

rob how do you mean stolen safetycards

actually i saw the onur reversing on runway 22 it came to a full stop about 1600 m runway .

Regards Roy Loyson

mstaviation · Post by **mstaviation** » 12 May 2005, 22:26

Indeed Rob,

There is much shit in the Onur air story at Beek....

But... I think there are worser airlines with passengers flying....

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 12 May 2005, 22:28

mstaviation wrote: But... I think there are worser airlines with passengers flying....

Of course there are but that's not a reason to let them fly is it

Aviation24.be

onur in belgium

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