Boeing 747 ADV is going ahead

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 10 Apr 2005, 02:47

The Boeing Company is going ahead with 747ADV, orders to be announced at Paris.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

vivek0072 · Post by **vivek0072** » 10 Apr 2005, 04:36

Well then if orders start filling for the 747ADV, it means the A380 'may' find it hard to even break even. Interesting move by Boeing(though it is delayed) and we all wait and watch as to what will happen next.

Surprisingly, its BA who has shown interest ? any Busy -Blair affair ?

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 10 Apr 2005, 08:55

The B747-Adv is really a nice plane but what a pity it won't be fitted with exactly the same engines as the B787 (lost of comonalty). This was one of the biggest advantages over the A380, who doesn't share its engines with any other aircraft. Of course, a lot of parts will still be similar on the A350/B787/B747-Adv engines.

IIUC:
-B787 will be fitted with bleedless engines
-A350 will be fitted with bleed engines
-B747-Adv will be fitted with bleed engines + reduced fan

About a supposed BA order, it's really surprising, about both the timing and the aircraft choice. But an internal source of BA should be better awared than us, right?!

Regards

Seb.

x-prise · Post by **x-prise** » 10 Apr 2005, 11:15

hasnt the airbus a380 got the longest range with the most pax?
whilst now boeing is coming out with a version of their b747 but stretched a bit to acommadate !30! more passnegers but remodeled engines and wings to offer longer range. a380 beats us anyway, there is going to be a serious dissadvantage to any airline ordering that crap that doesnt stand up to or exceed the capabillities of the a380.
why make an aircraft to rival something that can carry 800pax over 8000miles without refueling and then just take an existing model and add 30pax to add up to 450 pax and new wings and engines whats that gonna do to the range? i say its gonna add on maybe more or less 500-600 miles to the range of this "new" design.
aibus has made a formidable aircraft that will stand its ground against any remake any "wannabe" so i say to my kinsmen "make something new!"
i love the a380 it is amazing but my kinsmen at boeing need to develop a new design and become an aviation leader and design a suitable rival to the a380 not some 450pax 6000mile thing make it HUGE A380 STYLE!

MrAirbus · Post by **MrAirbus** » 10 Apr 2005, 11:21

HorsePower wrote: IIUC:
Regards

Seb.

What DOES IlUC mean?

sab319 · Post by **sab319** » 10 Apr 2005, 11:32

Finally Boeing decides to do something with the A380 competition, but too little too late...

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 10 Apr 2005, 11:44

Nice to see Boeing is reacting. But is it enough to add a few more seats in the B744ADV ?

Chris

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 10 Apr 2005, 11:53

x-prise wrote:there is going to be a serious dissadvantage to any airline ordering that crap

I don't think this aircraft is a crap! The only crappy thing on this bird is Boeing doesn't want to spend money into an all new wing wich can allow engines without shortened fan blade

. The problem comes from the outer engines clearance.

I'm still hoping that it will be FBW, but there is no proof of that

.

On a side note, I highly prefer a B747-Adv freighter over an A380-800 freighter.

MrAirbus wrote:What DOES IIUC mean?

If I Understand Correctly

Regards

Seb.

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 10 Apr 2005, 12:04

There is no way that the B744 (Adv or not) will come close to the A380, even if they add a few seats. But the Boeing 747 has a market of it's own, so Boeing should concentrate on lowering the seat-per-mile cost on the B744-Adv. Then they have an indirect competitor to the A380, when the seat-per-mile cost is lower then the one on the A380.
But a B744F-Adv would certainly have an advantage over an A380F, because of the nose-door which allows unusual dimensions to be loaded. When the operating economics are better, that would also be an advantage.
The article also mentions that there are no orders for passenger B744's anymore, which could close the B744-line by the end of next year. I thought that the B744 sold good as a freighter, or are those orders also drying up?

Has anyone a fix on how much a A380 costs (new build) compared to today's BA744?

But it is certainly great that they try to make this beautiful bird to take into the skies in the future.

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 10 Apr 2005, 13:51

I did think with the 747ADV, they would "at least" add 50 to 60 seats, but only 30 ??? 8O This isn't the way to gain new customers. This is probably just a way to keep current B747 customers away from the A380 ...
Current 747 users will most likely then choose for a almost similar B747ADV instead of the A380 ... Maybe a good strategy to defending their share of the market, but will it hold ? How long will it take before the A380 and B777 combined breake down the entire 747 line ?
And that's all under the consideration that the 747ADV gets approved ... I don't think they will approve it if the forecast 's only 100 aircraft ...

So wait and see ...

Greetz,

Andries

x-prise · Post by **x-prise** » 10 Apr 2005, 14:12

Andries wrote:I did think with the 747ADV, they would "at least" add 50 to 60 seats, but only 30 ??? 8O This isn't the way to gain new customers. This is probably just a way to keep current B747 customers away from the A380 ...
And that's all under the consideration that the 747ADV gets approved ... I don't think they will approve it if the forecast 's only 100 aircraft ...

Andries

i agree entirely with andries what si the point if you are working to keep customers whats the point you are going to lose them sooner or later no garanties they will be lost if boeing made a 50-80 pax addition to the B744 remodeled the wings made a stretch and a longer upper deck maybe they could stand a chance but this is crap

30

added pax is just useless sure the cost and such for a while but when you can buy something BIG and expensive and earn more money faster with a bigger profit (if it gets filled up) then b747adv will eventually lose market share to a380 in the long run...
again just wait and see what the future holds for us...

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 10 Apr 2005, 16:38

The one most important thing to remember about this aircraft is: its not designed to compete with the A380, rather to fill a gap between the 747-400 and the A380.

The second thing to remember is, this plane would not get built unless they already had customers who wanted it.

It can land at any airport that the 747-400 can land without any expense to the airport or the carrier,

Its costs of development have been paid for long ago, its going to be dirt cheap in comparison.

and as old as it is, the basic design is extremely good, and the economies of operation will drop, with the addition of the new engines, as well as redesigned wings and blended winglets.

The old girl may be long in the tooth, but she's far from dead.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 10 Apr 2005, 17:55

Andries wrote:I did think with the 747ADV, they would "at least" add 50 to 60 seats, but only 30 ???

In fact it is 34 seats in a 3-class configuration (450 from 416 pax)

.

bits44 wrote:The one most important thing to remember about this aircraft is: its not designed to compete with the A380

Of course it will compete with the A380. I don't see airlines ordering both B747-Adv and A380, so airlines have to made a choice.

bits44 wrote:... rather to fill a gap between the 747-400 and the A380.

In fact, it will fill the gap between B777-300 and A380-800. There is no gap between B747-400 and A380-800, and the B747-400 will disappear, replaced by the Adv.

Regards

Seb.

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 10 Apr 2005, 18:13

x-prise wrote:i agree entirely with andries what si the point if you are working to keep customers whats the point you are going to lose them sooner or later no garanties they will be lost if boeing made a 50-80 pax addition to the B744 remodeled the wings made a stretch and a longer upper deck maybe they could stand a chance but this is crap 30 added pax is just useless sure the cost and such for a while but when you can buy something BIG and expensive and earn more money faster with a bigger profit (if it gets filled up) then b747adv will eventually lose market share to a380 in the long run...again just wait and see what the future holds for us...

Maybe

fftopic: but, x-prise, could you please use Capital letter at the beginning of you sentence and komma's and dots ... Cause in this way it's hard to read your post. You have to read it 5 times over again before you understand it.

Greetz,

Andries

x-prise · Post by **x-prise** » 10 Apr 2005, 18:15

Maybe

fftopic: but, x-prise, could you please use Capital letter at the beginning of you sentence and komma's and dots ... Cause in this way it's hard to read your post. You have to read it 5 times over again before you understand it.

Greetz,

Andries

[/quote]
Ok hows this then Andries
Alright with you?
Hope so
Sorry for making it incomprhensible.
x-prise

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 10 Apr 2005, 22:16

Don't forget here that besides the pax-market, the B744-Adv has also a huge market in the freighter sector.

But like bits44 said, the B744-Adv will be a lot cheaper then the A380, and airlines that already use the B744 will go much likelier with the B744-Adv because they do not need to re-train the crew, maintenance personnel, and all the other people that will work on the aircraft.

It all comes down to this, the B744-Adv would be a lot cheaper to acquire/lease, and a lot cheaper to introduce into the fleet then the A380 would be.

p1lot · Post by **p1lot** » 11 Apr 2005, 10:57

B744skipper wrote:There is no way that the B744 (Adv or not) will come close to the A380, even if they add a few seats. But the Boeing 747 has a market of it's own, so Boeing should concentrate on lowering the seat-per-mile cost on the B744-Adv.

Totally agree.

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 11 Apr 2005, 19:53

I haven't read anyting about what Boeing is planning on doing with the 747Adv, but is it possible that they are going to upgrade the onboard systems as well as making it a wee bit bigger?? Perhaps a fly-by-wire system on the 747Adv?? Newer avionics??

x-prise · Post by **x-prise** » 11 Apr 2005, 20:27

Knight255 wrote: Perhaps a fly-by-wire system on the 747Adv?? Newer avionics??

i suppose they will be modeled on the B777 avoainics and such...

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 11 Apr 2005, 21:50

here's the original thread.
lots of info.

https://www.aviation24.be/postx6526-0-0.html