SNBA looking into China

[Fuji-Monster]

With only 1 million profit; i would be a financial risk to start such operations.
But as the state is involved in this deal ... some sponsoring (state-aid) will be done, i suppose.
Otherwise, it will be done by 767 of Hainan airlines.

[sn26567]

some sponsoring (state-aid) will be done, i suppose.

Are you dreaming? This government vowed never to invest one more eurocent in an airline...

[Fuji-Monster]

This is a deal of national importance and standing.

It doesn't have to be money they give, they can buy a number of chairs on every flight.
All depends how far the government has committed itself during their mission (some months ago) to open this line.

It would be unwise to sponsor Hainan airlines to start these ops.
I vote for Belgian money for Belgian companies.

Greetings.

[SN30952]

Maybe they will go for a mixed solution: Hainan to take Beijing and Guangzou and SNBA taking Shangai. Codeshare on each others flights. That would be great and smaller risk for both of them ... Danny

I say: Nee how!, but that is not for tomorrow....

[Avro]

It would be unwise to sponsor Hainan airlines to start these ops.
I vote for Belgian money for Belgian companies.

I agree with you that IF the government is willing to help this route in any form, they should help a Belgian company and not a foreign one if possible. After all the government should try to help the Belgian companies to create more jobs

Chris

[DannyVDB]

With only 1 million profit; i would be a financial risk to start such operations.

Net profits are not used for investments, not even to take decisions for doing so.

You better look at the cash position (not that they will use the cash for buying planes, but it indicates whether they have a margin for starting new operations or not). When SNBA started it had 200 mEUR (mainly from bank sector). Then it 'burned' large part of this money till 100 mEUR was left (end 2002). Don't know what the current situation is.

You should also take into account that SNBA will not 'invest' in new airplanes, they will lease them.

Danny

[sn26567]

It doesn't have to be money they give, they can buy a number of chairs on every flight.

Agree. It would even be better if tey were actually USING these seats, instead of using a military Embraer or even an A310 every time the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister or the Minister of Defence makes a trip abroad.

[Ozzie1969]

some sponsoring (state-aid) will be done, i suppose.

Are you dreaming? This government vowed never to invest one more eurocent in an airline...

I wouldn't call the billions they spent on SABENA investing. "Throwing money away" would be a better description.

By the way : aren't the regional "states" of Brussels and Wallonia shareholders in SN Brussels Airlines?

[sn26567]

By the way : aren't the regional "states" of Brussels and Wallonia shareholders in SN Brussels Airlines?

More exactly, they are shareholders of SN AirHolding, which owns 92% of SN BA. It is the Federal Government that decided not to invest in an airline anymore.

[BigJets]

SNBA looking into China:

SNBA will go to China, If (and only IF) a code-share agreement is reached with another carrier. That carrier must be the one to come to Brussels. SNBA will NOT fly it's own aircraft to China. They do not have the aircraft and the existing aircraft certainly do not have the range. Besides, it is too risky and too expensive to do it alone. The Belgian government and BIAC are attempting to provide incentives in the form of lower landing fees to attract such carriers to Brussels (this is not only for China).

SNBA will add a 4th Airbus A330-300 to it's fleet: ex-Aer Lingus (EI-SHN c/n 054) owned by MAS V Ansett Worldwide, flying for Air Algerie as F-OMSA at the moment. The problem is the leasing price is too high and negotiations are still continuing but look good. The aircraft will be free at the end of July, time to paint and refurbish and should be ready by September.

This aircraft will fly to Africa:

Lome, Togo
Cotonou, Benin
Lagos, Nigeria
and possibly:
Bamako, Mali
Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso

...to deter the competition, as well as strangthen certain existing routes.

A 5th aircraft is being sought, however proving difficult to find.

The 747 Combi (passenger, cargo) version has been looked into for both the 4th and 5th aircraft.
-Cockpit - outsourcing
-Cabin crew - SNBA
...as well as the 767. No decision as of yet.

Replacement aircraft need to be found in the longer term.


8)

[Avro]

Thanks for the detailed information BigJets and welcome to Luchtzak.

Your first post is very interesting.

But may I ask why SN doesn't want to operate with its own metal to china if they can find a codeshare agreement.? I don't see why existing planes don't have the range to fly to China ?
I agree with you that it can be risky to do it alone, but with a partner I don't see why SN couldn't do it with their own planes.

It's nice to see the 4th plane will finally arrive and it's also nice to see destinations such as Lagos will finally be back on the timetable. Let's hope nothing will prevent them to have that A330.

One question. The B747combi which has been looked at was it a -300 or a 400 ?

Chris

[vflies]

Wouldn't an extra type of metal (747 or 767) make their crews less flexible as I think I remember reading somewhere in these forums that (cabin)crews trained on AVRO-A319-A330 could not legally have an extra qualification?
Or has that changed?

[liebensd]

This aircraft will fly to Africa:

Lome, Togo
Cotonou, Benin
Lagos, Nigeria
and possibly:
Bamako, Mali
Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso

So my conclusion of this list is that we can't expect Beap anymore to start?

Greetz,

Dave

[Jense]

Is it a wise decission to aquire THAT A333? It's also one of the first built (-301 series) + SN would be the 3th or 4th operator. It also has been stored in the desert some time...

[sn26567]

It also has been stored in the desert some time...

Well, at least, it will not have flown too much during that time

[maximenaeyaert]

Hi bigjet where did you get that information from?

max

[DannyVDB]

SNBA looking into China:

SNBA will go to China, If (and only IF) a code-share agreement is reached with another carrier. That carrier must be the one to come to Brussels. SNBA will NOT fly it's own aircraft to China. They do not have the aircraft and the existing aircraft certainly do not have the range. Besides, it is too risky and too expensive to do it alone. The Belgian government and BIAC are attempting to provide incentives in the form of lower landing fees to attract such carriers to Brussels (this is not only for China).

SNBA will add a 4th Airbus A330-300 to it's fleet: ex-Aer Lingus (EI-SHN c/n 054) owned by MAS V Ansett Worldwide, flying for Air Algerie as F-OMSA at the moment. The problem is the leasing price is too high and negotiations are still continuing but look good. The aircraft will be free at the end of July, time to paint and refurbish and should be ready by September.

This aircraft will fly to Africa:

Lome, Togo
Cotonou, Benin
Lagos, Nigeria
and possibly:
Bamako, Mali
Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso

...to deter the competition, as well as strangthen certain existing routes.

A 5th aircraft is being sought, however proving difficult to find.

The 747 Combi (passenger, cargo) version has been looked into for both the 4th and 5th aircraft.
-Cockpit - outsourcing
-Cabin crew - SNBA
...as well as the 767. No decision as of yet.

Replacement aircraft need to be found in the longer term.


8)

Hi Bigjet,

Interesting information ... Is this 'official' or just rumours or ideas?

Even if this is correct, I have some questions. Acquiring two aircrafts for extension in Africa only looks a little bit strange. Even with frequencies of former Sabena you do not need 2 aircrafts for thos 5 new destinations. A second aircraft in Africa would only be useful if they start flying to South-Africa ...
So if there is a second aircraft involved (assuming they can get their hands on one as you state) it would be logical to start operations elsewhere ...

Danny

[teach]

Is it a wise decission to aquire THAT A333? It's also one of the first built (-301 series) + SN would be the 3th or 4th operator. It also has been stored in the desert some time...

To me, it seems the most logical and sensible choice they could have made (I even hinted to this exact aircraft in an earlier post https://www.aviation24.be/posts9610-highlight.html): It's the only A330-300 currently on the market that has GE engines and is about the same age as SN's A330s. This provides commonality benefits for SN, and the plane will be cheaper to lease because it's 'older' and there are so few airlines operating this particular version, thus less possible customers. I say SN would make a fine choice acquiring that bird.

[Avro]

It's the only A330-300 currently on the market that has GE engines and is about the same age as SN's A330s. This provides commonality benefits for SN, and the plane will be cheaper to lease because it's 'older' and there are so few airlines operating this particular version, thus less possible customers. I say SN would make a fine choice acquiring that bird.

Indeed, there aren't that much A330-301 operators. In total there are 19 A330-301's in the world. They are devided as follows.

SN:
OO-SFM
OO-SFN
OO-SFO

Air Algérie:
F-OMSA (the one which could go to SN)

Aer Lingus:
EI-ORD
EI-DUB
EI-CRK
EI-JFK

Phillipine Airlines:
F-OHZM
F-OHZN
F-OHZO
F-OHZP
F-OHZQ
F-OHZR
F-OHZS
F-OHZT

Qantas:
VH-QPA
VH-QPB
VH-QPC

Chris

[pilatus]

What I have heard is that the 4the A330 will be used to fly to the middle east, not for Afrika.