VLM, SNBA make profits, something Sabena only did once !

beco · Post by **beco** » 25 Mar 2005, 00:06

Belgian airlines made last year profits. VLM for the 8th consecutive year. SNBA for the second year in a row. It shows that when such companies are not state owned and no politics are involved (Hallo, PS = partners in crime) airlines can still make money in Belgium. Let's hope SNBA can build further on this. I don't worry about VLM.

FlightSimCrew · Post by **FlightSimCrew** » 25 Mar 2005, 08:30

Indeed, very nice of those companies at least they show some black figures... but we still have to remember that both airlines are facing aging fleets. How long can VLM fly with those F50 ? I know that they already dot a presentation from Embraer but I do not beleive the ERJ170 is already certified for LCY approaches.. (anybody to confirm ?)
But also SNBA is getting older, most of the planes from DAT have quite a service record in within a couple of years are to be replaced. As this costs a lot of capital both companies will have to increase profits in order to raise funds. But anyway a good start like now is already a good step in the right direction.

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 25 Mar 2005, 10:00

This thread is very similar to the one :
"Increased profit for snba in 2004"
If you open it you'll see that I raised the same question (ageing fleet) a.o. that was tentatively answered by Topolenibas ?(sorry if I mispell, I write the nickname out of memory)
@admin : Possible to merge the 2 topics?
Thx

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 25 Mar 2005, 10:07

The E-170 isn't certified for LCY approaches yet. The Rekkof F70 is still an eventuality... (few chances, but already certified)

Regards

Seb.

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 25 Mar 2005, 11:04

At present, the fleet of SN has an average age of 7 years so they can go on with the same fleet for the next 10 years without any real problem (gradually phase out the BAe146 maybe, but that's it). What is the average age of the fleet of KL? AF? BA? I don't think SN are in need of a fleet change anytime soon and frankly that is very good news for them, because at present, the AVRO RJ is all they can afford as backbone of their European fleet! What plane are you proposing BTW? Did you know the leasing rates on 1 avro (roughly 85.000 euro/month) are 4 times less than that on 1 EMB170 (300.000euro/month)? (Prices are as quoted by Mr. E. van Innis, CFO at SN) Can you imagine what that would do to their costs?
Let's do the calculation:
imagine they replace their 26 Avro's by 22 EMB170s/190s (note the smaller number to compensate for their slightly higher efficiency): that would mean the leasing costs would go up from 2,2 million euro/month to 6,6 million euro/month, an increase of 4,4 million euro/month!!!
On the savings side: let's estimate the average fuel bill for the Avro fleet at SN: 26planes X 8hr/days X 2000l/hr x 0,4euro/liter = 100.000 euro a day or 3 million a month. Note that even if the EMB170/190 flies on thin air, it is still not making good for the increase in leasing costs!!!! And the expected fuel savings of an EMB170/190 are of 10 to 15 percent only!!!!
So in total that means a more cost of almost 4,O million euro a month or 48 million euro a year and SN made a profit of 1,06 million euro this year....
NOw, to put it even more bluntly: SN transports roughly 250.000 pax a month, so since the return on investment is not going to come from fuel savings (nor from maintenance cutbacks, believe me, I can prove you that to) it means every pax ought to be willing to pay 30 euro per ticket more, simply to fund the fleetchange... I don't think you will find many pax willing to do so! Starting to see a bit clearer why the Avro RJs are going to be around for a LOOOOONG time?

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Mar 2005, 11:30

sn-remember wrote:Topolenibas?
@admin : Possible to merge the 2 topics?

Sorry, I can split a topic in two but I cannot merge two topics in one.
For the spelling of topol..., think of Sabena Pilot in reverse

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 25 Mar 2005, 11:47

It is good to know that both airlines are making a profit. It will be much easier for SNBA to select a type for regional flights when they no oonger have the Avros, but VLM will be tied to something which can fly into London City - Avros, Fokkers or ERJ (not the 170). It would be good for VLM to obtain some jet types, give them more capacity and increased range.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 25 Mar 2005, 12:10

The only ERJ type certifified for LCY is the ERJ-135Adv (37seats).

Seb.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 25 Mar 2005, 12:16

On a side note, VEX still loosing money:

Virgin Express réduit sa perte à 7,3 M EUR en 2004, contre -19 M EUR en 2003 (french)

Regards

Seb.

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Mar 2005, 12:34

HorsePower wrote:On a side note, VEX still loosing money

English: https://www.aviation24.be/article8149.html

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 25 Mar 2005, 13:18

Is there anybody among you who knows if the new an-148 has been designed to make 6 degrees descend rates with less than 1000m landing run? Could be THE solution for VLM; cheap price (+/- 14M EUR), 80PAX,.. especially if the ordered planes by Russian companies (Pulkovo,...) will not be delivered because of a colder relationship UKR/RUS since elections (I've read a topic about it aviatsya.ru), Antonov would be very happy to sell the first planes to the west and make good conditions!
One day, I will have to ask Antonov for compensation for gratis publicity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

beco · Post by **beco** » 25 Mar 2005, 16:36

Today, VLM manager in De Tijd says that it becomes more difficult to get good F50s on the market. But he can drive to Woensdrecht, not far from Antwerp and find a lot of F50s and make from the peices a new one.

Aviation24.be

VLM, SNBA make profits, something Sabena only did once !

VLM, SNBA make profits, something Sabena only did once !

F50 Fokker