Next A380 customer...

cathayoneworld · Post by **cathayoneworld** » 17 Mar 2005, 14:35

Which is the next airline to order A380? BA? CX? NZ? JL?

BA? (I think A380s are useful for them on high density routes, such as London-Hong Kong, London-Singapore-Sydney, London-Los Angeles, etc. This can keep their competitiveness with Virgin Atlantic and other European airlines.)

CX? (I hope they will go for A380 instead of 747ADV, CX can use them on Hong Kong-London and other high-density routes in Asia and USA[Los Angeles].)

NZ? (Auckland-Los Angeles-London?)

JL? (Tokyo-Chicago, Tokyo-Los Angeles and some high-density Japan Domestic routes.)

p1lot · Post by **p1lot** » 17 Mar 2005, 15:24

I think the 380 will look stunning in BA colours... anyone got a preview anywhere??

BP · Post by BP » 17 Mar 2005, 19:15

I hope that this helps.

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... d=00001250

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 17 Mar 2005, 19:20

You all need to start thinking practically. Japan Airlines ordering the A380??? Unlikely, they are a very loyal Boeing customer (even if the plane may suit some of their routes). British Airways.... take a look at their long-haul fleet now, all Boeing. They are also a semi-loyal Boeing customer. I think you could expect more cargo carriers to start ordering it though.

BP · Post by BP » 17 Mar 2005, 20:11

Knight255 wrote,

You all need to start thinking practically

As I understand British Airways was a loyal Boeing customer and they opted for the A320. Things change loyalty to Aviation manufactures is a thing of the past. In this day and age the manufacturer that provides the best deal and product wins.

As for JAL am sure that they will rather wait and see what happens with the introduction of the A380 but in the end am sure that they will opt for the A380 along with ANA.

C_J · Post by **C_J** » 17 Mar 2005, 20:12

I agree with you "Knight255", I don't know about British Airways but JAL seems very unlikely to me. Japan Airlines is such a good and loyal customer for boeing. If they are interested in an airplane of that size they probably will choose the 747ADV.

BP · Post by BP » 17 Mar 2005, 20:22

C_J wrote,

If they are interested in an airplane of that size they probably will choose the 747ADV.

As I understand the B747ADV is nothing more that a paper plane, or another PR move from Boeing. As much as I would like to see the Old Girl over the skies for many years, the fact is that Boeing is pushing this project too slow and in the end it may prove too little too late

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 18 Mar 2005, 04:29

Why hasn't British Airways ordered any yet?? Of ANA or JAL for that matter??? If it fits their markter so well, then why haven't they ordered the planes?? British Airways has chosen Airbus for one market (short-haul), as I understand they have chosen Boeing several times for their long-haul market

loyalty to Aviation manufactures is a thing of the past

I don't see any (with the exception of one) legacy U.S. airlines ordering from Airbus recently....

As for the 747Adv, I completely disagree with you that it is

nothing more that a paper plane

. It splits the market of the A340/777 and the A380. What if an airline wants something in the middle??? Are they to buy more of the A340/777's or are they to buy a few A380's and have emptier planes??

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 18 Mar 2005, 06:37

BP wrote:C_J wrote,
If they are interested in an airplane of that size they probably will choose the 747ADV.
As I understand the B747ADV is nothing more that a paper plane, or another PR move from Boeing. As much as I would like to see the Old Girl over the skies for many years, the fact is that Boeing is pushing this project too slow and in the end it may prove too little too late

Don't put the 747 out to pasture just yet, Boeing has had tremendous response from Air Cargo carriers for the ADV, and one of the main reasons is it can land at any of a thousand airports in the world.

The Airbus A380 is very limited to a handful of airports, and even the U.S is maybe half a dozen at most, in fact LAX is not expected to have their improvements finished until 2010.

As for the ADV there is a lot of interest from major carriers for passenger versions, and with the new engines, and the re-engineered wings, the economic reality is this plane will be really cheap to buy and fly, as well as meeting all the proposed noise restrictions being imposed by airports around the world.

The Air Cargo industry predicts it will require in excess of 750 new heavy aircraft in the next ten years, so Boeing is not going to ignore that market.

BP · Post by BP » 18 Mar 2005, 10:25

Knight255 wrote,

Why hasn't British Airways ordered any yet?? Of ANA or JAL for that matter??? If it fits their markter so well, then why haven't they ordered the planes??

Hi Knight, I think that you are missing the point. Or maybe you didnt read my last post correctly? My theory as to why JAL , ANA, BA along with others havent orderd the A380, is they might prefer other carriers to go through the teathing problems first. With all new planes am sure that the A380 will give the launch customers some headaches. But dont worry am sure they got a good deal for those occasions.

knight255 wrote,

I don't see any (with the exception of one) legacy U.S. airlines ordering from Airbus recently....

Maybe I should help you on that one. How about QANTAS, AIR BERLIN, EASYJET, SAS, KLM, AIR NEW ZEALAND, AIR ASIA, just to name a few.

Post by **sn26567** » 18 Mar 2005, 10:30

BP wrote:knight255 wrote,
I don't see any (with the exception of one) legacy U.S. airlines ordering from Airbus recently....
Maybe I should help you on that one. How about QANTAS, AIR BERLIN, EASYJET, SAS, KLM, AIR NEW ZEALAND, AIR ASIA, just to name a few.

These are not legacy U.S. airlines. Knight255 was talking about Northwest! And perhaps also about defunct Eastern and PanAm...

BP · Post by BP » 18 Mar 2005, 10:42

Sn26567 wrote,

These are not legacy U.S. airlines. Knight255 was talking about Northwest! And perhaps also about defunct Eastern and PanAm...

I beleive that Knight255 was refering to airlines in general and not just NW. But maybe he will help us on that one.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 18 Mar 2005, 16:08

To BP:
Tony was refering about the 7 US main carriers. The exception is, of course, NW. On these "7 bigs", only 2 operate the B747s (NW & UA), and both won't order either A380 or B747Adv soon...

To cathayoneworld:
BA/CX: They don't know themself what to chose. Let's say BA to go with Airbus. About CX, it's really 50/50...
NZ: B747Adv could suit them
JL: B747Adv of course

Likely next customer:
-Cathay (CX) or Air China (CA), if they order it...

Regards

Seb.

bkonner · Post by **bkonner** » 19 Mar 2005, 03:12

Definitely do not count the 747 as dead! First of all, there is no mortgage on the aircraft. All revenue coming in, except for parts, is pure gravy for Boeing. They should upgrade the aircraft, ABSOLUTELY! Boeing has several aces up its sleeve which will cause Airbus headaches at least for the next couple of years.

The first problem is the value of the US dollar. While Airbus prices its aircraft in dollars, they pay for their production mostly in euros. This has got to be a problem for Airbus, a big problem. Until my country cleans up its fiscal mess (which right now it has no intention of doing—WE ARE FOOLS!!!!!), the dollar is going to be, if not worthless, not worth much!

Airbus has a huge mortgage to pay on the A380. Not to mention the development costs of the A350. Remember that the US government and the EU are trying to deal with Airbus commercial and military subsidies by EU states and Boeing's support in military aircraft production by the Pentagon. Right now my country and the EU are out of court. That could change. Airbus could face financial strains if they are not careful.

Boeing has several advantages right now, which I suspect based on how well they have been doing selling aircraft over the past few months, may be paying off. Although I am not that impressed with the management that is running Boeing. Certainly Airbus seems to have a clearer path on their strategic goals. Boeing seems to be lost right now and maybe a little desperate based on recent illegal actions taken by the company with the 767 tanker, the Lockheed rocket scandal among their problems. Also, lets face it, they have lost their testicular fortitude!

Bkonner

cathayoneworld · Post by **cathayoneworld** » 21 Mar 2005, 10:21

I think CX is going to order the A380 after the first flight operated by Singapore Airlines because CX won't just sit and watch the expansion of other Asian and European competitors which has ordered the A380 (SQ, MH, TG, LH, VS) So, I'm sure that CX will order it within 1 or 2 years.

PS: Someone says that CX will order the A380 and A350 (to replace their A330) in the Paris Air Show on June. Hope to see their good news!

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 21 Mar 2005, 12:28

Ya, it was rumored that CX could order 5 A380-800 this year, but nothing official yet...

Regards

Seb.

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 21 Mar 2005, 12:31

Don't you think a combi version of the a380 would help finding new customers? (cargo on lower deck, pax on upper deck)

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 21 Mar 2005, 12:43

The main problem of combis is you can't transport dangerous/corrosive/explosive material on passenger aircrafts, and the list become more and more restrictive. For instance, AF doesn't operates anymore B747s in combi configuration (6 B747-400 combis in full pax version and 3 B747-200 combis in full freighter version). I don't know about the 17 B747-400 combis operated by KLM. The advantage is that the A380 is a double decker, so if airlines still believe in combis, there won't be any challenger...

Regards

Seb.

p1lot · Post by **p1lot** » 22 Mar 2005, 17:39

Surely, in order for an airline to have a want for an aircraft of that size, there has to be an identifiable need. The impact of a new aircraft on a high density route would therefore reduce costs (among other factors) and increase effeciency of the airline.

Once the needs and wants have been set, they need to be satisfied - this is where the criteria for the '380 come in. Many people have suggested that a new product in it's "teething" stages will keep buyers away until these have been recognised and ironed out; this is true and I feel particularly about this with BA especially with the new Owner in the left seat.

The airline to order next will have identified these factors and tied the new aircraft in with its future marketing strategies... Emirates for example are making it a prominant feature for their amazing range of holidays to Dubai, etc. Sounds good to me!

SicilianFalcon · Post by **SicilianFalcon** » 22 Mar 2005, 18:56

Reading above firstly Id say that Ba havent ordered any new aircraft and especially the A380 because they dont have the finances to bid for a good amount of the planes at this moment in time.

Same goes for all the Us legacy carriers, They have no money? Would it be logical to buy huge new aircraft with no money. Nope!

Id say Cathay will buy the A380, It is only my opinion but from what I read and the flights and places they fly too I would say them from you're list.

As for JAL beign a loyal Boeing customer, Things change. Were Air Berlin not a loyal Boeing customer ? They placed a large order with airbus.

Never assume anything, Until the orders come in we all have about as much of a clue as the next person which is ZERO.

Forza 8)

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Next A380 customer...

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