Brussels - Bangkok route to be inaugurated in 2006

press · Post by **press** » 28 Feb 2005, 14:38

hi,

this weekend I attended the belasia fair 2005.
I spoke to dozens of people, including many airline managers and representatives.
besides new upcoming links to the UAE, India and China, Thailand seems to become the next Asian country with a non-stop bru link.
a lot of industry professionals are tired of being systematically ignored by all airlines who provide links between Europe and Thailand.
the upcoming launch of the phuket air operations to ams pissed-off the entire industry, even though the phuket air services will be used extensively due to their low fares (the phuket air product itself is nothing special).
nobody understands how it is possible that no less than 4 different airlines will be offering up to 20 flights a week to Bkk and beyond, out of ams.
ams generates a massive amount of Belgians, at the expense of bru.
industry professionals are determined to make sure that there will be a scheduled non-stop service out of bru, 3 or 4 times a week, with transfer possibilities in bkk to other Asian destinations.
they are convinced that this could stop the flow of bkk (and beyond) pax to ams, fra, cdg, lhr, hel, vie, etc...
biac is very interested in this project, as they are losing a lot of traffic and money due to the fact that all those ams and cdg pax connect by train, and therefore do not make use of the airport facilities in any way.

if the (Belgian-Thai) travel trade can't find a suitable partner this year, they will launch their own operations in 2006 to the new Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport.

what do you all think about this new rumour?

bye

fly · Post by **fly** » 28 Feb 2005, 14:55

like I said in a other thread, maybe its finaly time for SN to take a share of this market.
take delivery of new long haul aircraft and start those routes to asia.....!
Maybe they can even take away pax from KL/AF and LH.

When are they going to understand!?

Post by **sn26567** » 28 Feb 2005, 15:02

press wrote:what do you all think about this new rumour?

A rumour? You seem to be better informed than any of us! I wish you got the information right!

I was also very unhappy to have to fly LH to FRA in order to catch a direct TG flight to BKK. A few years ago, Balkan and Tarom were happy to have direct flights from BRU to BKK: even if there was a stop in SOF or BUC, there was no disruption in the flight and no change of plane. A non-stop flight in the future (like provided by SLR during a few months, with an extension to HKT) would even be better.

Flying-Belgian · Post by **Flying-Belgian** » 28 Feb 2005, 15:28

Sorry, but you are all pointing out the bad facts. The real question is: Is there a high yield market from BRU to an Asian capital ??

The answer tend to be yes as far as China is concerned. And it seems to be a no as far as Thailand is concerned. At least at the moment.

When SQ pulled out of BRU, their flights were full, but full of tourists (Best Tours and so on...) connecting to DPS, PEN, HKT,... Much of the F & C traffic was from ZRH or MAN.

Even if personnaly I'd be so happy that BRU wins a major asian carrier in the near future.
But only the MONEY/PROFITABILTY will decide.

FB.

fly · Post by **fly** » 28 Feb 2005, 15:31

you have a point there

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 28 Feb 2005, 18:31

Thx Flying-Belgian for the comment.
But a market can only progressively be built up.
If BRU-BKK is not solid enough maybe bru-bkk-xxx could make the difference ?
xxx being
- a resort place in the region
- a business place (sgn, kul, sin ???, can, hkg?)
After all lots of airlines (and not the smallest) use bkk as a 1st hit on a 2-legs route although I agree that a non-stop connexion is always the best cost-saving solution...
Also North-East asia and China as a whole have so much potential to offer ...I am happy things seem to be moving in the good direction !Really !!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 28 Feb 2005, 19:19

Let's hope that BRU will get this new route.

I totally agree with you fly on the fact that SN should lease another long haul plane and start operations to Asia (for ex to china). I'm sure that the market is large enough. Just look at all the belgians or people living in Belgium who are travelling through AMS, CDG, FRA for the moment.

It's time to react and to get those pax back in BRU.

Chris

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 28 Feb 2005, 19:38

Could Orient Thai be a possible operator of such a route or would their new AMS operations put them off?

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 28 Feb 2005, 21:09

If Orient goes to AMS then the probably is quite low that they will start a service to BRU as well in my opinion.

Chris

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 28 Feb 2005, 22:08

Sorry I have got mixed up here. I am on about Phuket Air not Orient Thai - but you never know Orient Thai might go long haul. I doubt Thai would do a BRU service

regi · Post by **regi** » 01 Mar 2005, 00:56

Okay, here we go again. Everytime so often, Bangkok hits the stage.
details? I spoke to Mr. Udom, boss and owner of Orient thai. He told me that Brussels is at the top of his list of european destinations. But the time is not good for it. This dates already from last year, and the tsunami won't improve things.
There has been a reply about Mr. Udom which said that already 2 years ago he was thinking about opening an european routing. The risk is too high. Remember SARS, bird flue and the tsunami.
But all you guys seem to forget so easely the past. Sabena and Sobelair flew directly to Bangkok and Phuket. Oh yes. Thai Inter flew to Brussels. Profitable? Enough passengers, that is sure. But the extra costs were too high. I think it is a unfavourable combination of old boys networks in Brussels and Bangkok at the same time. They all must have their piece of the cake. Now with the sell of Biac to a foreign company, things can change. But still too many politicians fill in the board of directors. Bad news.
Tarom was mentioned and Bulgaria (Balkan Air) They don't do BKK anymore. So was CSA, LOT, Malev and even Yugoslavian air ( I remember their old billboard on Rama 4 road)
Theoretically speaking, you could fill 2 flights a week, just with the tourists of the big companies like TUI. But they also work with subcontractors, and even that doesn't work out. (Belgian Exell...) Thailand is expected to be cheap. We all expect to get a ticket for less than 500 euro. The market is rotten, now Gulf Air and Air Qatar offer flights from CDG for +- 500 euro.
Yes, it is our wish to fly cheap. But if we want quality we have to fork out the euroos.
You think Phuketair is cheap? Well, what about the 480 euro ticket with Mahan Air from DUS, good for the Belgians in the eastern part.
And we dream on and on, some weeks ago it was Etihad which was in the news, just because they put out some personnel ads. Go ahead my friends, ask Pulkovo, Ukrain, Kazachstan (Air Astana nowadays), Sibirair, Uzbekistan and the rest of the gang to make a Brussels connection. But is it that what you want? No. Read the reviews about Phuketair with Skytrax. Please, be honnest, do we want to start a holday like that?
To continue about SNBA: they had a great flight to Johannesburg. But it stopped. Let me tell you, all flights to JNB are 100% full for 3-4 months. Why did SNBA stop? I don't know, I can only guess it has to do with dark forces of the old boys network.
Look, some months before Sabena went bankrupt, there was an add in the papers, showing connections e.g. to Madras. Bangkok had been kicked out already. Now I ask you: was the Madras flight profitable? I know the answer, it can only be NO. It has nothing to do with profit. It has other backgrounds.
By the way, Sabena in those days had not a good reputation for the Bangkok route. Expensive to start with (+ 32000 bfr or + 800 euro), lousy athmosphere. Sobelair was worse with a terrible seatpitch. Everybody chose Thai if you were willing to fork out 36000 bfr.
Allow me to be frank: if the right people are given enough freedom, they can get Zaventem international long haul traffic tomorrow, if not today. Latest example? Explain to me why that minister has to plea with the chinese to get a connection to Brussels. What a joke. If Brussels is attractive, you don't need to send out a kind of minister to sweeten the deal. If Brussels is attractive, the customers line up to use the facilities.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 01 Mar 2005, 01:04

There are two traffic magnets in Asia: India & China. Flying to China out of Europe is losing time via the SE.
SE Asia will more and more become a low cost traffic area, with its regional LCC's booming. And that in se is not that bad. With the carriers of the SE Asia area intensifying their frequencies beyond their respective bases, and the aircraft industry building long range aircraft, European carries flying these aircraft might opt for a first 'short leg' into the Persian Gulf or just beyond (India, because that is to become a huge traffic tank, they can tap any moment of the year, as used to be Germany in the '70-80) and then connect to more distant 'extreme longhaul' destinations: Australia, New Zealand, Fiji. Talking like Donald: Singapore, Bangkok... are old Asia....
And BRU-BKK will if it gets to be, low yield.

Remember there were 3 different fare categories to Asia depending on the routes: TS, SE and PO. PO is dead, SE almost. TS is kicking.

Post by **Bruspotter** » 01 Mar 2005, 12:43

Hello folks!

I would say

GREAT IF THAI WOULD COME BACK!!!!!!!!

I really hope it will be THAI!!! 8O Very nice airline and nice airplanes!

Best regards: Yannick

Post by **sn26567** » 01 Mar 2005, 14:29

regi wrote:Okay, here we go again. Everytime so often, Bangkok hits the stage....

Nice analysis, regi.
With one small mistake:

regi wrote:To continue about SNBA: they had a great flight to Johannesburg. But it stopped. Let me tell you, all flights to JNB are 100% full for 3-4 months. Why did SNBA stop? I don't know, I can only guess it has to do with dark forces of the old boys network.

SN BA never had a flight to JNB. Sabena did (and was forced to stop to fill the Swissair planes). Sobelair did, and it was a major factor to its bankruptcy.

regi wrote:Look, some months before Sabena went bankrupt, there was an add in the papers, showing connections e.g. to Madras. Bangkok had been kicked out already. Now I ask you: was the Madras flight profitable? I know the answer, it can only be NO. It has nothing to do with profit. It has other backgrounds.

Yes, indeed, Swissair again...!

And one question: where are the plans of Thai to fly BKK-GVA-BRU instead of BKK-ZRH-GVA? It had been discussed in this forum earlier.
In the meantime, GVA has been abandoned by Thai...

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 01 Mar 2005, 15:35

Regi wrote:

Allow me to be frank: if the right people are given enough freedom, they can get Zaventem international long haul traffic tomorrow, if not today.

Would you mean that we have now the wrong people again ????
If what you say is true (or even half true) , it is quite unbearable.
Can you tell more about this ?
Really we can no longer accept playing with dangerous amateurs or irresponsible politicians !
The Sabena story is too vivid

I must admit I sometimes share the same feeling that the job is not being done as we are entitled to expect...Maybe the australian impact has not come into effect yet ? Or maybe I am being too critical or too impatient

Let us acknowledge that it is not evident to swiftly operate the recovery of a severly damaged business sphere.

OrientThai · Post by **OrientThai** » 02 Mar 2005, 13:24

TG has no immediate plan to fly to BRU. Thai plans to fly to JFK (starting May 1st), Moscow and Johannesburg. Oslo and VIE had been rumored to be the next destinations in Europe for TG.
CI has been rumored to start a AMS-BRU-BKK-TPE.

regi · Post by **regi** » 02 Mar 2005, 15:10

Despite some smaller mistakes in comments and the usual unfunded remarks and questions, it is clear to everybody:
the fact that there is no more direct BRU-BKK link indicates that there is something fundamentally wrong.
We can just guess and give some frustrated comments. But there are some people to blame for this. Blame? Why?
So many people in large companies and state organisations hide themselves behind regulations and procedures. "It is not my job. It is not my fault"
There is no hands on approach in the airline industry in Belgium. Sabena bust? Well, the state will pay for the unemployment fees. Sobelair gone? So will be it. DHL gone within some years? Okay, no more noise.
If this continues, the last airplane that will use the airport will be a government Airbus doing the shuttle to the south of France with official documents to be signed. Oops.

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 03 Mar 2005, 11:05

Thx Regi
Let's hope things are changing for good now

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 03 Mar 2005, 12:52

OrientThai wrote:...CI has been rumored to start a AMS-BRU-BKK-TPE.

Really..??

Will those flights be new or will it be a re-routing of the AMS-BKK-TPE flight?

Aviation24.be

Brussels - Bangkok route to be inaugurated in 2006

Brussels - Bangkok route to be inaugurated in 2006

Re: Brussels - Bangkok route to be inaugurated in 2006