Do gay pilots fly like hetero-men or as hetero-women?

Post by **sn26567** » 27 Feb 2005, 12:16

Comet wrote:And as for this rubbish that male brains work differently to female brains, alot of it is early conditioning.

If so, take the time to read this:
http://today.uci.edu/news/release_detail.asp?key=1261
http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Relatio ... nWomen.htm
http://web.isp.cz/jcrane/IB/Sex_diffs_in_the_brain.pdf
http://www.medilexicon.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=20134
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/malefemaledif/default.asp
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/scienc ... der.brain/
http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/brainsx.html
http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/genderdiffs.pdf
http://www.womens-health.org/hs/facts_brain.htm
http://www.sfn.org/content/Publications ... brain.html
http://www.youareunique.co.uk/PgenderbrainII.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Health ... 260&page=1

I have 100 more references.

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 27 Feb 2005, 12:21

André you are

fftopic: this is not about the male / female brain, its about the GAY brain !.

André I just cant believe this

Post by **sn26567** » 27 Feb 2005, 12:26

JetB wrote:André you are fftopic: this is not about the male / female brain, its about the GAY brain !

Yes, indeed Bob, and the question was: does a gay brain work like a man's brain or a like a woman's brain? Hence my answer to Louise about the differences between men and women...

I know that this topic might look offensive to some people, but should we just hide and ignore such kind of topics? If you close it you get flack. leave it open and you get the same kind of flack.

Nobody is obliged to read the topic if he/she thinks he is offended by it. There are several other topics that are less controversial where he/she can find his/her happiness.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 27 Feb 2005, 12:40

Andre - you are implying that women are incapable of reading maps, and I am telling you that this is not the case. You cannot argue with that.

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 27 Feb 2005, 12:58

This is not aviation related anymore so you should close it André.

And YOU did remove my topic before, so why did YOU just not ignore it ?, because you have the power to do whatever you want to do ?.

André I do not appreciate your impute here !, the difference between the sexes has nothing to do with aviation.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 27 Feb 2005, 13:05

sn26567 wrote:I know that this topic might look offensive to some people, but should we just hide and ignore such kind of topics? If you close it you get flack. Leave it open and you get the same kind of flack.
Nobody is obliged to read the topic if he/she thinks he is offended by it. There are several other topics that are less controversial where he/she can find his/her happiness.

It seems the subject is difficult for some of the readers. But no offense is ment. Or is it again some phobia...
People should know* gay pilots are not the exception no longer: read what of information this link can bring: Out on the Runway

And here is an other link: NGPA The NGPA is a (US) national organization of Gay and Lesbian pilots and other aviation enthusiasts from across the U.S. which promotes aviation safety and equal treatment.

Note: I, myself, I might qualify as other aviation enthusiast but I'm not in the US.
*iso starting to shout: the subject is about pilots, with respect and high (r)egard, not about frustated readers. 8)

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 27 Feb 2005, 13:11

"embarrassed and now frustrated !" Oh yeah that is me

somebody want to join my club ?, maybe you Louise.......

C_J · Post by **C_J** » 27 Feb 2005, 15:50

Cool down, relax and talk about aviation!

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 27 Feb 2005, 17:29

Tell me about it ... Give us all female pilots and female service crew and all female flight attendants and make them nude for the purposes of my filthy 22 year old mind

Amen!!!!! But seriously, I don't think it really matters who's in the flightdeck. The only thing that REALLY ticks me off is that female pilots (in the U.S.) with the same or even less of a skill level of a male pilot will get hired first for "diversity" reasons. This is crap!!!!

I have seen two of my flight instructors (both female) get hired (one with ExpressJet, the other American Eagle) get hired before a male instructor of mine who had 500 hours more experience!!!! As for reading maps (we prefer to use the word "charts"), I don't think it really matteres. It takes skills to get lost when operating on an IFR flight plan. As for GPS, this has made it almost impossible to get lost, even for women.

(I'm just joking.) This certainly is an interesting study, but I feel sorry for those gay pilots who may fly like women, but will get hired (even with more experience) after the women!!!!

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 27 Feb 2005, 17:35

The memory of some members (readers) is short. But not of all members!
Here is what the member wrote:
JetB: Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:00 pm
@ Sjakie :
You make a good point when you say that so many topics are discussed here on luchtzak about cars, babes, beer,...... so why not somebody's sexual orientation !.
The once (ones) opposing so strongly are most likely the "in the closed cases" don't you agree ?
And in my opinion you are not off topic, Aviation and Gay go hand in hand, I see that every day. People that are anti guy (gay) should not work in the aviation industry, look around you, sometimes I even wonder if there are straight Fa's.
After some observation I came to this conclusion ;
Fa's : Gay men
Airport police and security : Lesbians
@ André :
Dear oh dear........
end of quote

FA are Flight Attendents. JetB for sure has many friends among FA's. Airport Police and security like to see him come.

And we like him for his steady ideas and excellent memory...... New nick, same old person?

Dear oh dear........

Dear oh dear........

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 27 Feb 2005, 20:49

Taking things out of there context is so easy Fons, and cheap on top.
Congratulations anyway, hope you had fun searching for those quotes, only on advise for you " Get a life ".

I do not believe in discrimination, black - white, or sexual orientation doest make a difference for me.

The case you quote from "Sjakie" was about outing, and if somebody feels the urge to do that, then I say way not !.

But a few jumped on the topic and felt there was no place here for such a discussion in this forum. I say yes, there is room for such a discussion.

There is no room for a discussion when you talk about people ( female / gay ) the way we are doing here. You should now better not to post crap like that.

And for you administrator, you didn't like Sjakie's input but this one you unlocked !.
André I feel you made a wrong decision, and instate of fixing it your having this drag on even more !.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 28 Feb 2005, 01:56

JetB wrote:Taking things out of there context is so easy Fons,....
I do not believe in discrimination, black - white, or sexual orientation doest (does not) make a difference for me.

There is no room for a discussion when you talk about people ( female / gay ) the way we are doing here. You should now better not to post crap like that.

And for you administrator, you didn't like Sjakie's input but this one you unlocked !.
André I feel you made a wrong decision, and instate (instead) of fixing it your having this drag on even more !.

Emotions, emotions and resentments, dear JetB. But as I said before: "And we like him for...."
And about "the way we are doing here", talk for yourself, JetB.

Neither do we. That is why I asked the questions to open the debate. Your responsibility is high in this JetB! Many young people are reading this. We come up for their equal opportunities. If such young readers have doubts, we want to say to them, go for it*: aviation although in turmoil, has great jobs for EVERYONE. We had Knight255 saying that it REALLY ticks him off is that female pilots (in the U.S.) with the same or even less of a skill level of a male pilot will get hired (intentionally slightly altered quote

) Is that not because the situation is/was so skew, or that things had gone too far? If the situation had from the beginning, been fair, such things would not have to happen?

You know this: some thirty years** ago I was on the first all female crew flight of Mexicana, from MEX to Merida Yucatan. A B727 flight. Probably the first all female crew of Latin America. We were only two airline guys to support them: a Lufthansa guy and me, and rest reassured we weren't the only two with moustaches on board and we didn't know one of the crew members personally. In macho Mexico, our only thought was to support them.
On the other hand I will probably never board a Hooters Air plane.

When I wrote 'different' I hoped people would have answered: What does it matter. They are all qualified. (I used and hinted the word, see higher)
You also will have noticed that whenever a lady in aviation distinguishes herself, I post an item? The last ones I remember, and I hope you have fun searching for those quotes where the lady manager @ Dubai airport, and the lady manager @ Schiphol.

* Instead I was surprised I did not get support from women in the forum

. Or is this a macho forum?
**Sabena was flying MEX via YUL continuing onto GUA. B707 & 747 That's how long ago that is.

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 28 Feb 2005, 10:19

Well, this is my opinion on this matter. I think there is no difference between hetero or gay man in their intelligence. Why would somebody interest (in men or women) change their intelligence. I know some gay persons, and these persons are really intelligent too.

So I think even starting a study of this is so stupid. Really. Just a wast of money.

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 28 Feb 2005, 17:25

I agree!!! I think everything should be based on skill level, and not sex/sexual orientation. I still think it is unfortunate that the people who do the hiring at the airlines don't see it that way.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 28 Feb 2005, 19:28

SN30952 wrote: When I wrote 'different' I hoped people would have answered: What does it matter. They are all qualified. (I used and hinted the word, see higher)

You hoped people would have answered that but I actually did

read it again:

Whether gay or hetero, woman or man they all had to go through a very tough training which learned them the same procedures.
The job of pilot is very rational and to be honest I don't think that you can feel the difference of flying between a man, a woman, a hetero or a gay pilot. They all know how to use the navigation charts and they all know how to navigate with the instruments so I don't see how there could be any difference.

Now if an emergency situation arises one might think that they could have different behaviours. That's right but in my opinion everybody could have different behaviours and this has nothing to do with your sexuality.

Chris

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 28 Feb 2005, 19:44

Emotions, emotions !!!

It is nice to know that Luchtzak members are very tolerant open minded and understanding people.

But this topic :pukey:

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 01 Mar 2005, 02:33

Avro wrote:I actually did read it again:
Whether gay or hetero, woman or man they all had to go through a very tough training which learned them the same procedures.
The job of pilot is very rational and to be honest I don't think that you can feel the difference..... Chris

You scored an ace, Chris.
What I actually hoped to achieve, with this, I confess, provocative* item, is that
- (young) people who are on the brink** of deciding what career they would go for, would not be influenced by any doubt: girls, boys, everybody can DO it, go for the (aviation) career you have in mind.
- teachers, educators, parents, grandfathers (?!) give the youth you might influence, the reassurance they can DO it.

Wouldn't we be proud Chris, if in a few years(1), someone PM-ed us to write: "I read your lines in FEB2005, and I made it"

*provo-technique just used to make the message pass on, if some fell in the trap, pity for them, some did not. Thanks Andre.
** this is the season where youths in Europe decide what studies/training they would like to undertake.
and *** some guys & girls need some training to stay in control, even when a situation is going opposite to their convictions.

Look out for a next 'provo', and don't fall in the trap.

Note: (1) Meanwhile I might be out of the cargo-ranking

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 01 Mar 2005, 16:21

Here are a couple of links for those uneducated who believe that women are incapable of understanding maps -

http://www.cartography.org.uk/Pages/Mem ... index.html
British cartographers (map designers) you will find a few women listed here. Think they don't understand maps?

http://www.orienteering.org/
You will see that the World and European champion in orienteering (a sport involving map reading) is a woman. Think she is incapable of reading and following a map?

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 01 Mar 2005, 19:02

And what about Ellen Mac Arthur? She is very famous here in France!
http://www.solarnavigator.net/ellen_mac ... ailing.htm

Regards

Seb.

lumumba · Post by **lumumba** » 01 Mar 2005, 23:53

This is not aviation related anymore so you should close it André.

And YOU did remove my topic before, so why did YOU just not ignore it ?

I'm totaly agree with this.
regards
Pat

Aviation24.be

Do gay pilots fly like hetero-men or as hetero-women?

Out on the Runway

Dear oh dear........ :?

I did not get support from women in the forum.

Re: I did not get support from women in the forum.

I read your lines in FEB2005, and I made it