A350 Cancellation

[SicilianFalcon]

Why would I need to fly to the USA and say it to your face unless you are in the Us government or the person you were replying to wasnt me and the post had been removed. Clearly stated what i think here.

As for rumour I could just start one now and say there is a rumour BA is going to buy 50 A350's or United are funded by the US government ?it gives it no validation and atleast having a link to the source of the rumour would be good or 200 people a day could log on here and feed us with rubbish that suits their opinions.

enjoy

Forza 8)

[Knight255]

You have some serious issues with the U.S. government, and I'll leave it at that. Back to the A350, we must keep in mind though that not only will it compete with the 777-200, but also the A340-2/300. That may not be wise of Airbus to compete with itself. Its smaller versions would keep the A340-2/300 still operable, and it'd still compete with the 787. As for BA, keep in mind they are a split fleet!!!! Airbus planes for short-haul, Boeing for long-hual. I don't see why you are scared of Boeing planes. Airbus makes good quality products, I just don't like them from a pilot's standpoint. In case if you didn't know, all Airbus products are fly-by-wire (unless I'm mistaken), and the flight computer can override a pilot's actions. I don't know how European airlines train their pilots, but here we're trained to fly the plane safely within its limits. To have a computer second guessing my every action is an insult to EVERY pilot alive. That is why I will never fly an Airbus plane!!!! I, unlike some people in this forum, have VALID reasons for not liking Airbus products.

[SicilianFalcon]

I don't know how European airlines train their pilots, but here we're trained to fly the plane safely within its limits.

Yeah over here in Europe we dont do this, Insted we train the pilots on bicycles with celetaped paper wings to them because unlike you we are so far behind in every way.

Im pretty sure the Pilots dont get overuled by computers as it is the pilot in control of the input to the computer system.

[BP]

knight255

To have a computer second guessing my every action is an insult to EVERY pilot alive. That is why I will never fly an Airbus plane!!!!

The FLY-BY-WIRE system has been incorporated into the Airbus family since the A330-600 and A310-300 to the present day and the results speak for them self. If you choose not to fly an Airbus aircraft for those reason than youll have a hard time finding a job in the US, look around and see how many US airlines fly Airbus aircraft youll see that its not that few.

[Knight255]

Let's see, Delta, Continental, American (A300's are being phased out), Southwest, ATA, Hawaiian, most of United, hmmmmm all Boeing here!!!!! And if you look at my symbol, you'll see which airline I want to fly for. That makes 3 legacy carriers out of 5 that have all (or soon to be all) Boeing fleets (I'm leaving out U.S. Airways because they will liquidate in the coming months). By the way, why don't you do a little more research into the FBW systems in Airbus planes, THEY CAN OVERRIDE THE PILOT!!!! I'm not saying Airbus planes are unsafe, I just refuse to fly one. As I said earlier, Airbus does make good planes!!! On the subject now, I don't see how Airbus cannot design and develop a competitor to the 787, it's such a HUGE market!!!!

[website-info]

Hi Knight 255

Let me get this right, your a certified flight instructor, aspiring Airline pilot, ie just out of diapers, so if Uncle Jet Blue came along, or Virgin America or heaven forbid the Flight Ops Manager of the United A319/A320 fleet and offered you a job you would turn them down because it's not a Boeing mmmmmmm think you better start flipping burgers at MCD or look for a new career path,

Oh by the way, United operate nearly 40% of their fleet as Airbus and are currently storing Boeing aircraft not Airbus aircraft on every spare piece of desert they can find,

Oh and back on topic, lets just wait and see in 2years time how many orders the A350 has, afterall if the 787 was so great would Qatar not have placed their order already for 60 instead of waiting for more details on the A350 !
Tony

[earthman]

Luchtvaartnieuws.nl reports that Air Canada is going to order 50 widebody planes this year, and that they are looking at both the 787 and the A350, so maybe they will order both?

As to the fly by wire systems, as far as I understand it, Airbuses do not override the pilot, they just set hard limits on what the pilot can do, and they do not let the pilot perform maneuvers which cause the aircraft to lose control. Boeings have soft limits; when you reach the limit, it takes twice the force (or something like that) to push the controls further.

Here's an article on the subject: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/boe202.shtml

[BP]

First of all let me correct my last post as I meant to say that the Airbus FLY-BY-WIRE system has been incorporated into Airbus aircaft since the A300-600 and not the A330-600 as this last aircraft doesnt even exist.

Hi knight255 you wrote the following statement,

(I'm leaving out U.S. Airways because they will liquidate in the coming months).
IF I was you I wouldnt be too sure of that, lets not forget the financial situation of most of the US airlines, I wouldnt be suprised to see American Airlines disapear before US Airways.

EPS_Aviation wrote:

so if Uncle Jet Blue came along, or Virgin America or heaven forbid the Flight Ops Manager of the United A319/A320 fleet and offered you a job you would turn them down because it's not a Boeing mmmmmmm think you better start flipping burgers at MCD or look for a new career path

I have to agree with EPS_Aviation on this one, what if one of them do come along and offer you a job will you turn them down. Lets face it so many US airlines are turning to Airbus, especially for the short haul as they really have the best product. Look around and see how many job oportunities you will miss out for fear of flying Airbus aircraft.

US Airways
United Airlines
TED
Jet Blue
Frontier
Independance Air
Northwest Airlines
America 3000
Virgin America
America West
and even American Airlines with their A300-600.

[Gate-A1]

And we can also add

DHL, UPS and FEDEX and Spirit in the future.

[findtech]

As to the fly by wire systems, as far as I understand it, Airbuses do not override the pilot, they just set hard limits on what the pilot can do, and they do not let the pilot perform maneuvers which cause the aircraft to lose control. Boeings have soft limits; when you reach the limit, it takes twice the force (or something like that) to push the controls further.

The 777 has the soft limits while the other Boeing aircraft don't have either, no word on the 787 yet although the rumor is that it will have an enhanced 777 cockpit.

US Airways
United Airlines
TED
Jet Blue
Frontier
Independance Air
Northwest Airlines
America 3000
Virgin America
America West
and even American Airlines with their A300-600.

Ted is United and "America 3000" is USA 3000, Virgin America does not exist yet. Several of the companies listed are not exactly in any position to be doing new hiring. Yes, there are pilots who will not fly Airbus aircraft.
EDIT: Notice that UPS, Fedex and ASTAR all operate the A300/310, not the 320/330/340 featuring the Control Laws which are specifically what many of the above mentioned pilots object to.

[earthman]

Yes only the 777 has soft limits, but keep in mind that the 777 is the only Boeing airliner which has fly by wire.

The 787 will have all flight controls powered by electricity instead of hydaulics, so it will be fly by wire too. I'm sure it will have soft limits as well.

[sn-remember]

@admin of this thread :
Don't you think it would be opportune to modify the title of this thread ? "A350 cancellation" seems pretty deceiving.
Thx

[sn26567]

@admin of this thread :
Don't you think it would be opportune to modify the title of this thread ? "A350 cancellation" seems pretty deceiving.

Well, the main discussion is still on the relative merits of the 787 and the 350 and started with a possible cancellation of the A350 programme. So let's leave the title for now!

[earthman]

Well, the 787 got the better looks imho.

It is also pretty revolutionary with everything being electric. I'm not sure if this is such a huge advantage, because it probably requires more retraining of all technicians than a hydraulic/pneumatic aircraft such as the A350. I also wonder about the reliability of electric vs. hydraulic systems, especially in light of the upcoming EU ban on lead in electronics in 2006 (see this for an explanation why this is a bit of a problem).

[Buzz]

To have a computer second guessing my every action is an insult to EVERY pilot alive. That is why I will never fly an Airbus plane!!!! I, unlike some people in this forum, have VALID reasons for not liking Airbus products.

If that is really how you feel, look for another favorite job.
The task of a pilot is not to have fun up in the sky, it's to get the passengers as safely as possible to their destination. If a computer checking your actions helps improving safety, then what's wrong with it?
Humans make mistakes, it's only natural!

Your valid reasons are a load of *****! (unless you can prove to me that the computer is bad for safety)
As an employee you don't get a choice, especially in aviation, you take what you can get!

On Topic now:

It's a stupid rumour, of course they won't cancel the a350, they have just started it after a very extensive proces of checking every possible thing...

[an-148]

to find a job as a pilot in the nearly future will become difficult to Knight255 and same minded.
I just discovered Bombardier is preparing a 110/130PAX project (joystick and FBW saving 15 cm of cockpit lenght + security of FBW) !!!

[earthman]

The new Bombardier will be FBW with sidesticks but nothing is mentioned about whether it will have hard or soft limits.

What would be nice though if the system would be advanced enough to actually sense that the aircraft is about to lose control and intervene, instead of having hard set limits. It would also be nice if the FBW system could automatically regain control of the aircraft after it lost control.

[5Y-KQV]

I am not an authority on FBW systems but from what I have seen here, I would feel VERY SAFE in an aircraft with a computer that would override inputs from the pilot that are considered unsafe or beyond the design limits of the aircraft. I also think that systems with such in-built overrides would go a long way in reducing accidents/incidents which in the past have been attributed to pilot error.

Cheers,

Walter.

[p1lot]

Airbus A350 to be Cancelled


Rumours are circulating that this project may be dumped due to
lack of interest in this aircraft.

Sorry to be typically English here people, but going BACK to the original post while taking in the majority of what's being said here:-

I think the A350 should go ahead, although they could be found that by doing too much at once (in terms of projects), they are risking their own image by possibly overcrowding the mid-market.

I understand where Boeing are aiming for and I really want them to do well with the 787, it looks so different to all their projects. Again, the A380 has that edge, but both prouducts have an equal amount of potential in their target markets. Can't we just leave it at that?

I want to see something different again... someone else bring something out! It's 2005!!!

Let's see another Concorde!

[HorsePower]

A350-800/-900 will not compete either A330-200/-300 nor A340-200/-300 but will replace them.

A340-200 isn't build anymore.
A340-300 is almost dead, only 9 airframes remaining on book order:

-1 Air Tahiti Nui
-2 LAN Airlines
-3 SAA
-3 Swiss
------------
9 on order (source Airbus)

Also some of them could be cancelled (Swiss) or exchanged (SAA A340-600)

Basically, the A350-800 is an "A330-200NG" and the A350-900 an "A330-300NG"

Regards

Seb.