Will KLM stay a 737 operator?

KLMCityhopper · Post by **KLMCityhopper** » 02 Jan 2005, 13:57

After the merger with Air France, KLM`s future is secured, yet will it be albe to deside itself about its fleet? The 777 and A330 were chosen earlier, and are helpful to save costs, since parent Air France also operates the same aircraft. This was not planned by the way. KLM will eventually operate an identical long haul fleet, also flying with the jumbo. Since Ai France is a huge Airbus fan, flying with every single airbus ever produced, and KLM being a Boeing fan, always being one of the first airlines chosing a new Boeing model, it is doubtable if the strong 737 fleet of KLM will stay in tact, or that it will have to bend for the Airbus model. Personally, I like the Airbus, yet I think that the 737 fits better with KLM

sab319 · Post by **sab319** » 02 Jan 2005, 14:39

I think KLM will keep on flying the 737, their 737 is relativily new, so why replace it by A32x???

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 02 Jan 2005, 15:55

Since Air France is a huge Airbus fan, flying with every single airbus ever produced

Air France are not only a big Airbus fan, but also a big Boeing fan.

AF are such a big airline that they are able to combine a lot of aircraft types in their fleet.

For shorthaul flights, they've chosen the A320-family, now operating all A32S types (A318-319-320-321). The B735 is on the way out, and the last B733 has left the fleet.

For the longhaul flights, the B777 seems to be the new flagship for AF. The B742's and B743's are on the way out, the B773ER has been introduced on important longhaul destinations like NRT and SIN, and the A332 and B772 are put on the routes where they are best suited (for example due to payload/range issues; by the way, is it true that AF are planning an additional NRT-service operated by A332's? NRT seems to be a bit far for the A332...). The A343 will be withdrawn from use in the forseeable future, certainly the early A340-311's.

I don't have any confirmation about this, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like several of the B744 aircraft will replace the old generation B747's at ORY, leaving the important longhaul destinations from CDG to the B777-family.

EDIT: I forgot to say that the first destinations for the A380 will be JFK and YUL, from April 2007 onwards. AF confirmed that HKG and PEK will follow in 2008.

Second EDIT: I now realize that this reply is maybe slightly off-topic, but since AF and KL are 'one' from now on...

In relation to the KLM B737 issue: KL will keep their corporate identity during the coming years (wasn't it till 2009?). What will happen afterwards... nobody knows. It is clear that AF and KL are optimizing their netwerk (look at the Jakarta flights for example), but will this have an effect on the KL B737 operations? Nobody knows. With the earliest B737 (a -300 series) being from 1986, KL will have to start looking on a replacement order within several years. KL still have quite a new B737 fleet in general, with their last outstanding B737NG order (a -900 series) being delivered only a few months ago. Time will tell!

Frederic

Post by **sn26567** » 03 Jan 2005, 09:26

IMHO, KLM will switch to the A32S family for short haul flights. KLM is used to changing suppliers: before acquiring the 737 they were a true McDonnell Douglas customer (before it was taken over by Boeing).

Advisor · Post by **Advisor** » 03 Jan 2005, 09:53

Change subject to market conditions and prevalent situations is the law of nature.

If KLM adopts the same as it has in the past, it there much ado about it!

BP · Post by BP » 03 Jan 2005, 17:30

KLM´s decision to move to the Airbus A320 family of aircraft would become another major blow to Boeing. Althought i beleive that this would not happen in the forseable future considering KLM´s close ties with Boeing. On the other hand it would be great to see the Airbus short haul family in KLM´s colours as in my opinion it is a much superior aircraft to the 737NG family.

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 05 Jan 2005, 17:32

I think that KLM will be a boeing operator, a few weeks ago the ordered 2 more 777... And boeing is supporting dutch technical college`s with a lot o money and supplies, so it would be stuppid of KLM to leave Boeing!

Maby in the future when the fokkers are getting old that they chane to the a318

Advisor · Post by **Advisor** » 06 Jan 2005, 09:00

Hear Hear Hear

KLM plans to start an airline in the Dutch Antilles in 3 months.

With the status of a regional airline and operational area of the Caribbean.

Does anybody know the name???

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 06 Jan 2005, 13:44

Advisor wrote: Hear Hear Hear

KLM plans to start an airline in the Dutch Antilles in 3 months.

With the status of a regional airline and operational area of the Caribbean.

Does anybody know the name???

I didn't have heard anyting about a new airline in the Dutch Antilles, but I know they have plans to focus on the Caribean. There was already a press release on www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl and in "de Financiële Telegraaf" to co-operate with BonairExel en CuracaoExel.

P.s. Also KLM wants to make from Bonaire a small hub. KLM has proposed to finance the runway expansion and to build a catering centre at Bonaire. KLM has already 12 flights a week between Amsterdam and Bonaire. Seven flights fly through to Lima and 5 flights fly Through to Guayaquil and Quito.

KLMCityhopper · Post by **KLMCityhopper** » 06 Jan 2005, 19:14

I am sure that KLM will not co operate with the Exel group in the Caribean, since KLM Exel, a franchise broke its connections with KLM, and this airline was the most connected with KLM, so why would KLM fly with the same airline elsewhere, and the 2 regional Exel brands mentioned are mostly used to feed the Dutch Caribbean Exel flights, also to Amsterdam, meaning more competition on a route, but with a codeshare? huh?

Zorba · Post by **Zorba** » 06 Jan 2005, 19:25

I think an A320 would look fantastic in KLM colours, just like the A330

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 06 Jan 2005, 23:17

KLMCityhopper wrote:I am sure that KLM will not co operate with the Exel group in the Caribean, since KLM Exel, a franchise broke its connections with KLM, and this airline was the most connected with KLM, so why would KLM fly with the same airline elsewhere, and the 2 regional Exel brands mentioned are mostly used to feed the Dutch Caribbean Exel flights, also to Amsterdam, meaning more competition on a route, but with a codeshare? huh?

BonaireExel and CuracaoExel aren't anymore related to ExelAviationGroup. BonaireExel and CuracaoExel, and soon also Aruba(Exel) are a part of DutchEagleExpress. The relation between DutchEagleExpress and the ExelaviationGroup wasn't more than an operational co-operation. She is a 100% independent eterprise in the Dutch Antilles. The DutcheagleExpress has now, after the relation with ExelAviationGroup enough knowledge to go further independent. The lease contracts of the ATRs are taken over from ExelAviationGroup by the DutchEagleExpress, and the name 'Exel' will soon be removed from the planes of BonaireExel and ...etc...etc.

KLM has extra profit with this regional co-operation because by this way, many passengers can transfer on the transatlantic flights of KLM from the Caribbean. So there won't be a transatlantic competition. DutchEagleAviation is a 100% independent eterprise in the Dutch Antilles.
These are for so far the plans of KLM and the final decission is expected in the coming weeks.

But this is becomming

fftopic:

By the way KLM colours look indeed great on the A330:

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... d=00003163

and so does it on the A320

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... d=00000731

YYZ727 · Post by **YYZ727** » 07 Jan 2005, 08:14

I don't see them changing in the very near future. their 737-800 & -900's are way too new. In the middle long term they might change to Airbus...

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 07 Jan 2005, 16:22

KLM switching to A320's is complete nonsense. Why would an airline break aircraft commonality?!?! The pilots would have to be retrained, the maintenance technicians would have to be certified to work on the new aircraft. And in the process, money would be going out the window. Unless Airbus offers HUGE price cuts, I don't see KLM switching. Especially since they have a VERY new 737 fleet. It just makes no sense.

BA028_Is_Diesel_Powered · Post by **BA028_Is_Diesel_Powered** » 09 Jan 2005, 15:16

I think KLM should keep flying Boeing a/c.

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 11 Jan 2005, 10:37

New? I have been on a fair number of the KLM 733 and 734's and they certainly don't look anything like new. Are there not a few of them coming up to 15-20 years old? They are ready for replcing in my book....so what do they replace them with?

Knight255 · Post by **Knight255** » 11 Jan 2005, 17:06

It would make sense to keep fleet commonality so they do not have to re-train the pilots. Although, Airbus may offer more discounts than Boeing, thus making the A320 cheaper. It will be interesting. Just out of curiosity, how my 737NG's has KLM ordered and how big is their older 737 fleet??

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 11 Jan 2005, 20:39

Here is KLM's current active B.737 fleetlist owned by KLM:

PH-BDA - B.737-306
PH-BDC - B.737-306
PH-BDD - B.737-306
PH-BDE - B.737-306
PH-BDG - B.737-306
PH-BDI - B.737-306
PH-BDK - B.737-306
PH-BDN - B.737-306
PH-BDO - B.737-306
PH-BDP - B.737-306
PH-BDR - B.737-406
PH-BDS - B.737-406
PH-BDT - B.737-406
PH-BDU - B.737-406
PH-BDW - B.737-406
PH-BDY - B.737-406
PH-BDZ - B.737-406
PH-BPB - B.737-4Y0 (ex G-UKLB)
PH-BPC - B.737-4Y0 (ex G-UKLE)
PH-BTA - B.737-406
PH-BTB - B.737-406
PH-BTC - B.737-406 Destroyed
PH-BTD - B.737-306
PH-BTE - B.737-306
PH-BTF - B.737-406
PH-BTG - B.737-406
PH-BTH - B.737-306
PH-BTI - B.737-306
PH-BXA - B.737-8K2
PH-BXB - B.737-8K2
PH-BXC - B.737-8K2
PH-BXD - B.737-8K2
PH-BXE - B.737-8K2
PH-BXF - B.737-8K2
PH-BXG - B.737-8K2
PH-BXH - B.737-8K2
PH-BXI - B.737-8K2
PH-BXK - B.737-8K2
PH-BXL - B.737-8K2
PH-BXM - B.737-8K2
PH-BXN - B.737-8K2
PH-BXO - B.737-9K2

SicilianFalcon · Post by **SicilianFalcon** » 11 Jan 2005, 23:01

I guess the only answer to this question can be ... who knows?

Stranger things have happened in aviation then Klm Purchasing A320's.

Only time will tell.

The scheme would look rather nice on an a320 i think

8) Forza!

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