The SN short- and medium-haul fleet

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 24 Aug 2003, 17:08

The Boeing 717 achieved better sales figures when it was the DC9, MD80/90, in other words, before Boeing took over. It would be a shame to see the end of this superb aircraft, I would have hoped to see it in the skies for many years to come, in one guise or another.

The MD82 was a beautiful aircraft to fly in.

BBKing · Post by **BBKing** » 24 Aug 2003, 17:12

Think about the resell value !!!

I think the resell value of a B717 will be less than the value of the other competitors, due to the simple fact that nobody actually wants the B717.

And as I stated before, there must be a good reason for the fact that the B717 is not popular amongst airlines ...

My favourite remains the Canadair RJ-series !!!

777 · Post by **777** » 24 Aug 2003, 17:18

I agree entirely with Comet and Avro.
In fact the DC-9 is as old and reliable as the B737.
But nowadays reliability is more important than age.

Andre

vliegtuigfreak · Post by **vliegtuigfreak** » 24 Aug 2003, 22:24

I voted for the A318 because i'm a big Airbusfreak!!

Greetingzz
Sonny

777 · Post by **777** » 24 Aug 2003, 23:09

The Problem with Airbus is that they don't respect nor care about their future history, as Boeing does with the Boeing Museum with the Dash 80(707), 747 proto, 307,etc...

Airbus has been very quick to scrap their first prototype F-WUAB already in 1974.
And recently the second prototype F-WUAC(OO-TEF) has been scrapped in Melsbroek.

For almost 10 years it has been sitting next to the take-offs of millions of people who have been able to admire (?)(shame) this wreck of the second ever Airbus.

Such an image for years does certainly not contribute to Airbus Glory(which ?).

They just keep on making planes without worrying about their history. Shame on you Airbus.

Andre

vliegtuigfreak · Post by **vliegtuigfreak** » 25 Aug 2003, 09:20

Sombody know what happens with the first Airbus??

Greetingzz
Sonny

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 25 Aug 2003, 10:56

BBKing wrote:I think the resell value of a B717 will be less than the value of the other competitors, due to the simple fact that nobody actually wants the B717.

Maybe you're right with the resell value, but I don't think SNBA has to deal with it. In fact They'll probably lease the new planes, for X years and then those planes will leave the fleet, so SNBA won't be selling the planes.

Ciao
Chris
8)

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Aug 2003, 11:09

Avro wrote:Maybe you're right with the resell value, but I don't think SNBA has to deal with it. In fact They'll probably lease the new planes, for X years and then those planes will leave the fleet, so SNBA won't be selling the planes.

Correct! But the leasing companies take the resell value into account w-hen calculating the leasing price. Therefore, a plane with a low resell value will be leased at a highher price than one with a high resell value.

That's just sound economics!

BBKing · Post by **BBKing** » 25 Aug 2003, 11:17

Last weekend I read on one of the aviation websites of this world (I don't remember which one ...) an interview with the CEO of Frontier Airlines.

He stated that Frontier opted for the A318 due to the fact that this plane shares its cockpit and systems with the larger A319-A320, resulting in the fact that the crews only need one type certification and giving an enormous flexibility to the airline.

The demand on a particular flight will lead to the decision which type will be used. The provided crew can fly either the A318 or the A319.

If this is the way of thinking of airlines, the future of the A318 might look bright ....

A318 · Post by **A318** » 25 Aug 2003, 17:21

Difficult but 3 of them have all a good point. Embraer 170/190, new design, looks great, probably lowest in price, no proven quality yet!
Canadair RJ, looks also very nice but in my opinion expensiver then the Embraer, great it has GE engines.
Fokker 70/100, should be my choice for SNBA, reasons: proven model, great performance, low maintenance/operational costs, lowest sound production (think about those environment groups!), great delivery agreements at this moment with Fokker/Stork, low price and if needed a complete overhaul! Seen the situation from SNBA i think the best option, maintenance and parts close to the door (Woensdrecht, 35 km from Antwerp) No high investments, good performance and comfortable travelling at low costs. Why do you think KLM Cityhopper keeps on buying those airplanes?

A318 · Post by **A318** » 25 Aug 2003, 17:23

BBKing wrote:Last weekend I read on one of the aviation websites of this world (I don't remember which one ...) an interview with the CEO of Frontier Airlines.

He stated that Frontier opted for the A318 due to the fact that this plane shares its cockpit and systems with the larger A319-A320, resulting in the fact that the crews only need one type certification and giving an enormous flexibility to the airline.

The demand on a particular flight will lead to the decision which type will be used. The provided crew can fly either the A318 or the A319.

If this is the way of thinking of airlines, the future of the A318 might look bright ....

Counts also for the Embraer 170/190 and also for the Fokker 70/100

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 25 Aug 2003, 19:33

Ground_crew,

I don't think that the ERJ is a cheap plane, there is a lot of demand for that aircraft. And by the way the ERJ-190 will be certified a bit late for SNBA.

Ciao
Chris
8)

Post by **luchtzak** » 25 Aug 2003, 23:48

More news: at SN Brussels Airlines you have the chief-pilots and the training-pilots and they are divided into 2 parts: the ones who would like Boeing 717 and the other ones who would like to see Embraer 170/190.

Time will tell ...

ciao,

Bart
:rock:

Post by **sn26567** » 26 Aug 2003, 10:02

luchtzak wrote:at SN Brussels Airlines you have the chief-pilots and the training-pilots and they are divided into 2 parts: the ones who would like Boeing 717 and the other ones who would like to see Embraer 170/190.

And none of them likes the A318 for its commonality with the A319?????

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 26 Aug 2003, 17:15

Are the ones in favour of he B717 the chief pilots or the training pilots

Ciao
Chris
8)

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 26 Aug 2003, 20:24

A list of some aircrafts

TYPE....PAX..MTOW...RANGE
B717....106....50.......2645
B737....126....70.......6038
B738....162....78.......5449
B739....177....78.......5094
A318....107....59.......6000
A319....124....64.......6800
A320....150....73.......5550
A321....185....83.......5550
E170....66......37.......3889
E175....78......37.......3519
E190....96......47.......4260
E195....106....50.......3334

MTOW: in Ton
Range: in Km

And now we kan talk

That is what I wrote a time ago in this topic

The discussion here is about the fleet renewable of SNBA, but the only aircrafts where is talked about is from 70 until 110 or something. But if SNBA chooses one aircraft the have no flexibility of switching capacity. If they chose for a number of aircrafts than they have the flexibility of capacity. Now they have 32 aircrafts of Bae whit a capacity from +/- 80-100 and if you count the seats that are +/- 2882 seats. But is if the renew their fleet whit 5 A320(150 pax), 5 A319 (124 Pax), 10 A318 (107 pax) and 10 Embraers 145 (+/- 50pax) they have 2940 seats. When their do this they can change the capacity of the aircrafts to the needs of the traffic.

Choosing for one aircraft type is not an option. Therefore, only using B717’s is not flexible, so you need to look at a family of aircrafts. If SNBA will use the Embraer 170/190 family then they will also probably need to use Boeing or Airbus aircrafts with a higher passenger load. If they chose for Boeing or Airbus they will need also smaller aircrafts, for the Boeing 717 is may be another problem: is the cockpit compatible with the 737? Therefore, may suggestion is that what I wrote previously in this topic, a 320 family fleet and some smaller aircrafts for low density flights.

Greetz,

Dave

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 26 Aug 2003, 20:32

Dave,

First of all the cockpit of the B717 isn't compatible with the one of B737's.

I agree with you Dave, you need different aircrafts to be more flexible, but this costs more money. And as we all know SNBA hasn't that much money.

Ciao
Chris

My intuition says SNBA will order some A319's and some B717's.

vliegtuigfreak · Post by **vliegtuigfreak** » 26 Aug 2003, 20:39

liebensd wrote:Therefore, may suggestion is that what I wrote previously in this topic, a 320 family fleet and some smaller aircrafts for low density flights.

I think thats the best to + the A319 is the airplane with the 2nd lowest pax of the A320 family+ he can fly 6800 kilometers, so he can fly the most of the A320's. PS, i like the A319, i hope they order some more A319's or A320's or A321's.

Greetingzz
Sonny

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 26 Aug 2003, 20:47

Avro,

I think not that they will use Boeing and Airbus aircrafts. If the B717 is not compatible with the B737, is Airbus the best option I think. SNBA need aircrafts with more than 106 seats, so Airbus is the best option. A time ago I heard from someone who can know it that SNBA sometimes can use an A330 on some routes so maybe the A321 of Sabena can maybe be useful. If they can lease or find an external partner to operate a fleet of turboprops or small jets for flights with a real low number of passengers.

Greetz,

Dave

vliegtuigfreak · Post by **vliegtuigfreak** » 26 Aug 2003, 21:12

liebensd wrote: A time ago I heard from someone who can know it that SNBA sometimes can use an A330 on some routes so maybe the A321 of Sabena can maybe be useful.

Wow, the Airbus A321 is my favorite airplane, i hope SNBA will take them over from Sabena.

Greetingzz
Sonny

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The SN short- and medium-haul fleet

What aircraft would you favour for the extension of SN BA's fleet