Storm over Sobelair

[sn26567]

Interesting article in La Libre Belgique yesterday (http://www.lalibre.be/article.phtml?id= ... _id=127794)

Aldo Vastapane was angry at 4 pilots who sent him a fax against negotiating with SN BA (they would probably have to relinquish part of their salary if that occurred). He replied that he has no orders to receive from pilots.

There are also increasingly different views between Aldo Vastapane (who is actively looking for co-operation with SN BA) and his Managing Director Luc Mellaerts (who shares the pilots' views and wants Sobelair to stand alone).

And then this explosive statement from a study made by consultant Arthur D Little: the finances of SN BA are bad. Therefore, they should buy Sobelair at a low price, and sell three planes to refinance themselves! A second option would be to change Sobelair in a low-cost operator!

Hot summer over Brussels airport!!!

[vliegtuigfreak]

A second option would be to change Sobelair in a low-cost operator!

oh oh, like Ryanair or Easyjet, problems with customers.....


Greetingzz
Sonny

[sn26567]

Sonny, it is not likely to happen: Sobelair doesn't have the right mix of planes for that.

[vliegtuigfreak]

Sonny, it is not likely to happen: Sobelair doesn't have the right mix of planes for that.

Yeah, with the 767-300ER s.


Greetingzz
Sonny

[Avro]

I hope that SNBA and Sobelair could work together in the future because it would be benefical for both companies. On the other hand, the problems (abgry pilots, etc....) have to be solved before.

Ciao
Chris

[sn26567]

I hope that SNBA and Sobelair could work together in the future

Chris, if SN BA's plans are to swallow SLR to break it up and sell its planes, there is no co-operation possible.

[Avro]

I know but that's not what I hope. I hope they could work together like two normal companies which both survive

Let's cross our fingers

Chris

[SN30952]

A good low cost carrier is not a cheap one...

Virgin Blue is number one, Southwest Airlines and Ryanair took second and third place respectively in 2003 Travel Quality.com Aviation Awards.

Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said the carrier started less than three years ago determined to offer an affordable high-quality product.
"It's made a big impact in a challenging industry and what really shone through was its commitment to good old-fashioned friendly customer service,"

Last year Virgin Blue was named the Skytrax best low-fare carrier.
So low cost results in low fare?
Q is: would SLR and SNBA be able to offer an affordable high-quality product @ a low fare.
We are many to know the answers, aren't we?

[SN30952]

Q: What is the difference between an airline and a charter airline?
A: The client.
Airline clients are the passengers. In most of the cases the passengers decides what airline he will fly (Unless he wants to fly to Kabul, he might always end up with Mahan Airlines...)
Of course travel agents can have an influence, but in the end the passenger will decide.

Charter airline clients are the product managers of the tour operators. There are only a few PM in Belgium. Their criteria are slightly different from the passenger's. Remember some elegant kick backs in Luxemburg with some famous TO. Charter airlines can eventually buy these PM's.

Interest and benefits are NOT the same.
The passengers wants comfort, services etc... everything you know.
The PM wants the widest benefit margin, and as little as possible trouble. If he can obtain that, and made a saleable product, he has done good work.

When the passengers wants the max, the PM will tend to give the minimum. Its an balance-act.
The charter airline will consequently work in the same balancing way. Its only problem is competition. UK, Germany, Netherlands have good charter airlines due to that competion. But a charter airline in a monoply has arrogance tendencies, as have prime ministers in a comfortable majority. That is why the british charter airlines are better than the premier overthere.
Fons

[Comet]

In Britain there are many complaints about charter airlines, as there are about Ryanair. Many charter airlines in Britain start up and either end up going bankrupt or taken over by bigger companies, but no one would ever regard them as quality airlines (and that is the point of view of someone British!)

[SN30952]

no one would ever regard them as quality airlines)

There used to be one regular quality charter in Belgium.
Flying BRU TCI (Not TFS, didn't exsist at that time) That was a Caravelle equiped only with 2/3 of its seats, to say 66 seats approx. Serving champagne to their passengers. But this charter was 'limited' to clients of a building promotor.
We are not talking of these exceptions.
Charters as done by Demeutter of Airtour Brussels Belgian TO in the 6&7ties, was not what a charter is nowadays.
I have seen british charters disembarking their load at MBA, oh my god...
Colleagues at stations in Spain must even have seen worse, although the flying time is shorter... raving.
The wrapper and the content are not always of best freshness...
Some countries have them...

[sn26567]

Q is: would SLR and SNBA be able to offer an affordable high-quality product @ a low fare.
We are many to know the answers, aren't we?

Definitely NO.
Many reasons:
1) the high traffic rights at BRU
2) a mentality of doing the least possible for the highest salary (although this is improving at SN BA)
3) a lack of entrepreneurship
4) an undercapitalised company that lacks money for the investments necessary to launch such a venture.

Only a guy like Branson (or that Greek from easyJet, Stelios something, can't remember his name) has the guts (and the money) to succeed.

[nwa757]

Yeah, with the 767-300ER s.

They also have 738s. They could sell the 763s and just keep the 738s.

[liebensd]

NWA757,

They own only two aircrafts (I think) one of them is OO-SBZ, so they can not sell the 767 they are not owned by Sobelair but by DSF (OO-SLR & OO-SLS) and another company, the 738 is also leased and is owned by Boullioun Aviation Services.

Greetz,

Dave

[SN30952]

Many reasons:
1) the high traffic rights at BRU

Andre,
Traffic rights are usually granted...
Do you mean the cost to operate into and out BRU BN?
If that is the case I guess it is for everybody the same? Or do have some guys avantages? I know airlines can bargain @BN.
What is known about that?

[SN30952]

[quote="liebensd]"They own only two aircrafts (I think) [/quote]
Selling its own gear, looks like sawing the bough your sitting on. As thin as it may be...
The value of SLR is this:
- Its know how
- Its aircraft
- Its portfolio
Honestly, I would be a foreign investor, I would only be interested in the last item.

[liebensd]

Sobelair: "Voldoende geld tot winter"
(belga) - "We zitten niet in geldnood. Voorlopig winnen we geld. We zitten goed tot de winter", aldus Aldo Vastapane, voorzitter van de raad van beheer van chartermaatschappij Sobelair. Hij zei dit in een reactie op geruchten over het verzoek van een lening aan SN Brussels Airlines (SNBA).
In juli luidde het nog dat het Sabena-curatele een herschikking van de schuld van Sobelair linkte aan een samenwerking met SNBA. Volgens Vastapane lopen hierover nog steeds gesprekken.




15:51 - 11/08/2003
Copyright © Tijdnet

English summary

Sobelair has enough money until the winter and is now making profit.

Greetz,

Dave

[Avro]

Yeah, But Sobelair is always making some money in the summer season. It's the winter which is difficult for them. That's why I think you should see their financial results over the whole year Anyway it's still a good news

Ciao
Chris
8)

[sn26567]

If SLR is earning so much money - which I doubt - why did I hear Aldo V on RTBF two days ago, saying tha the hoped for a loan from SN BA? Is that the reason why he is looking for co-operation?

[dolfke]

A loan from SBA? Where are we going to get that money? we don't have enough real money for ourselves to buy back all th eloans we have, so how would we be giving money to Sobelair?

Nice flying ya all
Dolfke