SN Brussels Airlines looks for partners in Asia

[sn26567]

Boeing767copilot started a mixed story about SN BA: https://www.aviation24.be/postlite6125-.html

This thread will discuss the Asian destinations, whereas the other thread will remain focused on the short-haul fleet of SN BA.

Boeing767copilot cited Gazet van Antwerpen saying that SN BA is looking for a partner to fly to China and Japan.

La Libre Belgique wrote the same today:
https://www.aviation24.be/postlite6133-.html (or in English: https://www.aviation24.be/article5459.html)

Any comments to this thread please!

[vflies]

Hello,

It would be good for Brussels to be linked again with Asia...
Just a few years ago you could see passengers planes from Korean Air, Singapore, China Eastern, Thai, Malaisian, Asiana and more...
And of course Sabena had a beautiful network in South-East Asia flown by her DC-10's...

Now what destinations could make a profit from Brussels?
I'm afraid there must be a reason why all those carriers pulled out of BRU and why we're left with JAL-bus to AMS, Thalys to CDG or AMS and connecting flights to LHR and FRA instead of non stop services...

VFlies

[eurojet]

Asian carriers know very well why they left BRU: there is just no market, and the ones that were here never made a profit on their BRU route, otherwise they would have stayed, it is as simple as that. To Asian standards, Paris and Amsterdam are just around the corner of BRU. BRU is about an hour from CDG by Thalys, which is to Asian terms just a metro-station away.
Moreover, there is no major Belgian ex-pat community living in Asia ( in contrast to the Brits or the Dutch, which are basically anywhere), and Asian communities in Belgium are much smaller compared to France, Holland or the UK. The few Belgian tourist venturing to Asia will have to stick with changing in Frankfurt, Paris or A'dam for the time being I am afraid. I would be curious to see loads on lets say a three weekly Emirates A330 to BRU, and for the spotters alone, I don't thinks they will do it.

[vflies]

I totally get your point, Eurojet, even though I try not to be so pessimistic...

Sometimes carriers just need a good incentive (financial I would guess) from an airport or a good deal with a tour operator to start operations.

So one could imagine such conditions being offered to lure those "new" Chinese tourists to Brussels and from there they could easily go to places like Brugge, EuroDisney, Paris, Amsterdam or even Venice and Rome.

I'm confident that an empty, modern, punctual and centrally located (if not cheap) airport like BRU should attract many foreign carriers if it was properly marketed.

VFlies

[lumumba]

Hi everybody.
There is a market for a Asian career ideed.
If SNBA can offer some transit destination it can be a big market.
Don't forget that you have a lot of passangers that are not happy with the big hubs.(LHR,CDG,AMS....).
Bru is a very friendly airport.
Also don't forget Toyota,Sony,Mitsubishi etc...
Also for the Diamond bussines we are flying a lot to Hong kong.
Regards
Patrice

[OrientThai]

In the other thread they said that SQ could come back to BRU, it would be great because SQ is far better than China airlines or Hainan Airlines in term of service, comfort and reliability. But I doubt they will come back, because they just left BRU one year ago so why would they come back so soon?
I think CX would be a good option for all the people who want to go to China, Indonesia, Japan, and for SNBA (CX is a oneworld member). CX could do a two time weekly service to BRU with an A340-300: HKG-BKK-BRU & BRU-BKK-HKG.
What do you think?
Anyway it's nice to see that there is a possibility for BRU to be linked with Asia again.

[etihad]

And the four candidates are ... ?

1) Hainan Airlines - Beijing
2) China Airlines - Bangkok and Taipei
3) Thai Airways - Bangkok
4) All Nippon Airways - Tokyo Narita

[TWA]

Carriers like Cathay and Eva Air which are already operating cargo flights to BRU might be the first to start pax or mixed services.

[sn26567]

And the four candidates are ... ?

1) Hainan Airlines - Beijing
2) China Airlines - Bangkok and Taipei
3) Thai Airways - Bangkok
4) All Nippon Airways - Tokyo Narita

The article mentioned China Eastern. That would have surprised me, since they dropped their service to Beijing and Shanghai just months ago.

[OrientThai]

I hope it will be ANA & TG (even they're together from Star alliance) so we can see the 7E7 and the A340/500 at BRU

[Flybe]

For new readers in this forum:

The other thread mentioned is this one:

https://www.aviation24.be/postlite5979-.html

There are some very interesting things said inthere!

And the article of La Libre Belgique that is mentioned can be found here (only french):

https://www.aviation24.be/postlite6133-.html

EDIT: the article in english: https://www.aviation24.be/article5459.html

Just to keep an overview of things 8)

Greets,

Pieter

[regi]

If we see what Freddy Van Gaever had to endure to get a license to operate - as a Belgian. Than we can make up our own mind about why so many quality asian carriers disappeared.
[removed by sn26567] Those who made the simple calculation between landing fees at Zaventem and Charleroi, and looked at the average movements of Ryaniar, saw almost exactly the profit margin of Ryanair last year.
The old boys network still has to be erased. First Sabena, than Sobelair. When SN will be gone, we would see Zaventem emerge as a phenix out of the ashes - with plenty of jobs for workwilling sabenians.
Would it have a positive impact if [removed by sn26567] would be paid according their performance and not background?
Is this a bit too harsh?
Ask Mr. Udom , boss and owner of Orient Thai.

[comment of admin sn26567: regi, please no politics in the forums]

[vflies]

I was about to commen on regi's post when I decided not to degnify it with an answer...

Still I'm happy André somewhat put it in order.
Even if that new member's political choices still clearly appear in his not-very-relevant post...
Maybe this was better deleted altogether...

I don't think that paperwork for a Belgian start up has anything to do with an existing carrier applying for landings right...

And CRL couldn't accomodate transcontinental traffic, so the comparison is irrelevant.

Let's get back to BRU's Asian expansion...

VFlies

[Falcon7X]

It's a little of topic sorry for that, but I can't see what the story of Mr. Van Gaever has to do with this topic. I was under the impression that he was yelling in the press about the delay way before he introduced his paperwork, which created the perception that the authorities were working against him. Besides if you see the number of passengers they had at the time and the payload you can hardly say the company could have survived.
I don't think that the Asian carriers left Belgium due to problems concerning the traffic and or landing rights. There is just no market for it, period.

[SN30952]

CX could do a two time weekly service to BRU with an A340-300: HKG-BKK-BRU & BRU-BKK-HKG. What do you think?:D

Why OX would CX fly via BKK to BRU?
BKK-BRU and HKG-BRU are almost equi-distant. (<140km)
CX is flying BKK-HKG daily in wide body.
That would only add to the cost... And there are more empty seats daily from BKK -> HKG & vv, all carriers considered of course, than any belgian TO can fill up in a week.
Depart Arrive Carrier/Flight Equip Freq Stop/Connex Trip Time
8:00am 11:45am TG 0600 747 15 0 2:45 hrs.
8:20am 12:15pm CX 0700 773 X246 0 2:55 hrs.
8:25am 12:15pm TG 0632 AB6 D 0 2:50 hrs.
9:50am 1:45pm CX 0708 343 X2 0 2:55 hrs.
10:20am 2:10pm GF 0150 343 D 0 2:50 hrs.
10:30am 2:20pm TG 0628 777 D 0 2:50 hrs.
10:35am 2:15pm OX 0200 747 D 0 2:40 hrs.
11:30am 3:10pm CX 0750 773 X236 0 2:40 hrs.
1:45pm 5:30pm EK 0382 773 D 0 2:45 hrs.
2:40pm 6:35pm CI 0642 744 D 0 2:55 hrs.
3:30pm 7:25pm TG 0630 333 D 0 2:55 hrs.
3:35pm 7:15pm KA 0281 320 D 0 2:40 hrs.
4:00pm 7:45pm TG 0606 747 15 0 2:45 hrs.
4:05pm 7:50pm CX 0712 773 X12 0 2:45 hrs.
6:40pm10:30pm CX 0702 330 X146 0 2:50 hrs.
7:00pm10:45pm TG 0602 773 D 0 2:45 hrs.
8:10pm11:40pm KA 0283 320 D 0 2:30 hrs.
So? A mixed service? Costly too.
And indeed "The old boys network still has to be erased. First Sabena, than Sobelair". These are the ones that put belgian aviation on the knees. I fully agree with regi.

[OrientThai]

Ok, SN30952 I agree with you that there is a lot of competition on the BKK-HKG route and CX will just loose money by adding these flights. So a direct BRU-HKG flight would be better and the connecting passengers to Thailand just have to take the existing flights.
But then if CI come to BRU and do an AMS-BRU-BKK-TPE (said in another thread) it will also loose money on the BKK-TPE because of the high competition on that route: BR, TG, plus the existing CI flights.

[flyinglsd]

Normally SNBA will take over Birdy which operated the african network of SNBA .
Mr Hasson and Gutelman are 2 men which have Birdy and work in the belgian aviation since 30years ( TEA, EBA, City Bird ).
In some weeks, they 'll sale Birdy to Snba and then will receive some euros.
What will they do with this money, maybe a new job , a new company?

[SN30952]

Ok, SN30952, a direct BRU-HKG flight would be better and the connecting passengers to Thailand just have to take the existing flights..

Agree,1000%..... for CX and other chinese tractors.

But then if CI come to BRU and do an AMS-BRU-BKK-TPE (said in another thread) it will also loose money on the BKK-TPE because of the high competition on that route: BR, TG, plus the existing CI flights.

Why is that? The TPE-BKK traffic is improving again. That same flight, TPE-BKK could be a sector of a TPE-BKK-EUR (other than SPL)--beyond (Trans N-Atlantic).
and?
Depart Arrive Carrier/Flight Equip Freq Stop/Connex Trip Time
8:30am TPE 11:05am BR 0211 332 356 0 3:35 hrs.
8:30am TPE 4:05pm TG 0609 333 X246 2 8:35 hrs.
8:50am TPE 1:25pm CI 0641 744 D 1 5:35 hrs.
9:05am TPE 11:45am TG 0637 333 D 0 3:40 hrs.
9:40am TPE 12:20pm CI 0693 738 567 0 3:40 hrs.
1:05pm TPE 3:45pm CI 0695 333 D 0 3:40 hrs.
4:00pm TPE 8:30pm TG 0633 AB6 D 1 5:30 hrs.
7:10pm TPE 9:45pm KL 0878 74M D 0 3:35 hrs.
7:15pm TPE 10:00pm BR 0061 332 357 0 3:45 hrs.
8:10pm TPE 10:55pm TG 0635 777 D 0 3:45 hrs.
10:20pm TPE 1:00am+1 CI 0065 744 D 0 3:40 hrs.
11:25pm TPE 2:05am+1 AZ 7681* 343 X247 0 3:40 hrs.
11:25pm TPE 2:05am+1 CI 0067 343 X247 0 3:40 hrs.

This last one continues to FCO:
CI 067 Taipei 23 : 25 Rome 10 : 10 1 340 -CY
CI 065 Taipei 22 : 20 Amsterdam 09 : 40 1 744 FCY
via BKK
CI 061 is non stop to FRA
CI 061 Taipei 23 : 10 Frankfurt 06 : 50 0 340 -CY

On the other hand CI flies to USA or Canada via the Pacific. Flying the N. Atlantic would enable them to make a RTW.
One never knows with these Chinese... In this hypothesis, a mix of business and tourism + cargo might make an acceptable LF. All depends if CI can acquire an important cargo contract both ways on all sectors, because as you know cargo usually travels OW, and not always via the shortest route. (There is no cargo mileage system) And seen the importance of the actual cargo asian import into the US, the Pacific routes might be (near-)saturated or at Max Payload. In that scenario SPL in useless, important are the traffic rights over the N. Arlantic. Belgium and its old boys circuit will certainly not show any european reflex in that scenario.

[regi]

my most sincere apologies to the group for remarks which were considered political.
Anyway, allow me to repair damage by giving a positive remark: let us all hope that soon there will be more connections between Belgium and asian destinations.

[lumumba]

Hi everybody.From Le soir
Eurojet don't forget that Thai was making profit on the BKK_BRU route but they had to stop because they enter the star alliance.
And they stop the code share agreement(withSABENA) and started to fly through FRA.And still till now has a code share agreement with LH.
Regards
Patrice