What about Miami ? Wake up please ?

[ATC]

Just a few remarks...

> From 15th september on KLM will stop the
AMS - MIAMI flights. (KLM/AF agreement ?!)

> BA will increase the MIAMI flights in their winterschedule.


BRU wake up ... :dammit:

If SNBA/AA will wait much longer BA will take the MIAMI passengers.
The Dutch and Belgian passengers will seek for a solution, I don't think they will "walk" to CDG for a MIAMI flight.

There are allready rumours for months about a SN/AA Miami flight ?
Now is the time...
Take a risk, promote it and be succesfull... don't be a sitting duck ...

How did Citybird do on their Miami flights a few years ago ?


Yours reactions please ...

greetings,
ATC

[blackhawk]

ATC, easy man, easy relax. KLM sill indead stop glights to MIA but Martinair wil increase their flight. (Am I correct?) Also, AF will increase their flight to MIA (I think)

[ATC]

ATC, easy man, easy relax

BH, I'm always relaxed... :cool2:

KLM sill indead stop glights to MIA but Martinair wil increase their flight. (Am I correct?)

I can't find anything about this Martinair MIA increase ?
Isn't Martinair also a KLM-daughter... so they must follow the AF/KLM new (skyteam) rules...

Also, AF will increase their flight to MIA (I think)

I haven't got more information about this, but like a said before ... I do think Dutch and Belgian passengers prefer BRU (local market) and not a "time/money waste" transfer to CDG.
I know KLM will force and transfer their passangers to the AF-MIA flight but I do think if some passangers got an alternative they would chose for BRU and not CDG or LHR.

Greetings,
ATC

[A318]

Martinair will stick (for now) with their schedule since they are 50% owned by the KLM group. Martinair has lower prices then KLM and you are right, any dutch passenger prefers SNBA then AF, logical.
However if I have to make a stop anyway I have option enough from AMS with Delta, United, Continetal and US Airways.
So no problem, I still don't have to fly AF

Greetz,

Erwin

[nwa757]

However if I have to make a stop anyway I have option enough from AMS with Delta, United, Continetal and US Airways.
So no problem, I still don't have to fly AF

Don't forget about NW. You could fly: AMS-MEM-MIA, AMS-MSP-MIA, or AMS-DTW-MIA.

[EBOS87]

I found this on the forum of www.scramble.nl:

Martinair Launches Florida Hub

August 5, 2004 - Effective October 31, Martinair will launch direct daily service from Miami or Orlando to the capital of Costa Rica, San José, operating Boeing 737-800 equipment.

A daily non-stop connection will be maintained between Amsterdam and Miami operating Boeing 767-300 ER equipment. This represents an expansion of two flights a week on this route. The number of flights between Amsterdam and Orlando will be raised from three to four a week. Via the Florida hub, these flights connect with the direct daily flights to and from San José.

(Source: KLM intranet newsarticles)

So MP will add some flights to Miami, which is a rather successful route because there are as well a lot of KLM passengers on those flights. I don't understand why there is no direct connection from BRU to MIA because there is certainly a market for it.

Stefan

[sn26567]

Effective October 31, Martinair will launch direct daily service from Miami or Orlando to the capital of Costa Rica, San José, operating Boeing 737-800 equipment.

Whose equipment will it be?

I don't think it would be profitable for Martinair to maintain a 738 in Miami to operate just one rotation between Miami and San José ...

[Flying_Dutchman]

Effective beginning October 31st, 2004, Martinair will increase its frequency of service from Miami - Costa Rica to 7 times per week. The flights will operate on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays as well as 2 flights per day on Wednesdays and Sundays. Service from Orlando - Costa Rica will also increase in frequency to 4 times per week, with flights on Mondays and Fridays and 2 flights on Saturdays. The flights will be operated on a Boeing 737-800 Passenger aircraft. Childrens' meals now include hot entrees, animal action figures and Fox Kids activities. Experience your vacation via Martinair: we offer a full-service product at a bargain airline fare!

www.martinairusa.com

The flights between Costa Rica and Miami/Orlando will be operated by Miami Air.

Off-topic:
I'm glad to hear Martinair will expand their network. They've just announched new flights between Amsterdam and Trinidad and Tobago, starting November 6.

[A318]

Smart move since Iberia just gave up there hub in MIA.
On the other hand, I saw the news came from KLM's intranet site, to bad since I read more things on it that never happened. I hope it will be true and that Martinair finally can break our of the AF/KL jail, they really deserve it to become totally undependent.

Greetz,

Erwin

[EBOS87]

A319, it's certainly true because you can conclude the same things when you check their winter schedule on www.martinair.nl. They also say that you've to change to another aircraft for the flight to SJO.
It's indeed nice to see that they are expanding, but MP made altough a loss of 6 million € in the first 6 months of 2004 and they expect a loss for the whole year...


Stefan

[rwy25r]

Someone asked how CityBird did on the MIA route : well, load factor was excellent but CTB still lost whopping amounts of money on the route, and as a fact on MCO as well. This why they were axed, together with LAX. Delsey only found out the same a couple of years later. These are mainly leisure routes. Please note that there is absolutely no correlation between the load factor and the revenue a flight generates, having a 'full house' doesn't mean anything at all. It's the business class that counts.

rwy25r

[Avro]

But would there be enough business traffic for an AA/SN cooperation on the MIA route ? that's the question.

The only thing I could see is that there would be a lot of transit pax as well, going to South Amrica via MIA.

But I don't know if this would be paying off for AA/SN.

Chris

[sn26567]

MIA is also an ideal gateway to the Carribean islands, the Southeast USA (all the way to New Orleans), and a vacation spot of its own, at a stone throw of the Everglades, Cape Canaveral, Disney World, Key West.

There shold be no problem to fill planes.

[ATC]

But would there be enough business traffic for an AA/SN cooperation on the MIA route ? that's the question.

If SN would operate the flight on its own, it would be difficult, but with the big AA partner it should be no problem to find business traffic.
MIA is not a big business city like NYC is, but BRU is the political and economical capital of Europe...

The only thing I could see is that there would be a lot of transit pax as well, going to South Amrica via MIA.

I think that's one of the many reasons why MIA is a important destination.
> a big tourist destination
> and an important transit route.

Someone asked how CityBird did on the MIA route : well, load factor was excellent but CTB still lost whopping amounts of money on the route, and as a fact on MCO as well. This why they were axed, together with LAX. Delsey only found out the same a couple of years later. These are mainly leisure routes. Please note that there is absolutely no correlation between the load factor and the revenue a flight generates, having a 'full house' doesn't mean anything at all. It's the business class that counts

I also think the profit of many destinations isn't indeed the LF, but the potential amount of Business traffic...

MIA is also an ideal gateway to the Carribean islands, the Southeast USA (all the way to New Orleans), and a vacation spot of its own, at a stone throw of the Everglades, Cape Canaveral, Disney World, Key West.

There should be no problem to fill planes.

If KLM stops the flight, SN/AA should take a part of this BENELUX market.
If they promote it the wright way, this destination could become a succes (like NYC and ORD).

Let's hope and see what happens...
SN/AA wake up (2005 ?)

greetings,
ATC

[flyinglsd]

I am just come back from Florida with DL.
BRU ATL JAX and PBI ATL BRU.

On the Bru ATL ( 8th flights for me) there are a lot of people to connect to all leisure destination to florida and caribbean and central america.
Then a daily BRU MIA with AA/SNBA will cacth people from the BRU ATL
with hte POOOOOOORRRRRRRR services of DL.
Dont forget the BA with 16 times to Miami per week ( tric daily saturday and monday in some weeks)

[ATC]

I am just come back from Florida with DL.
BRU ATL JAX and PBI ATL BRU.

On the Bru ATL ( 8th flights for me)

fftopic: If I may ask... what's your job ?

greetings,
ATC

[flyinglsd]

the answer is in my nickname flying lsd
lsd for in french
licencie en sciences dentaires then dentist!
civil aviation is a passion for me from my first age until today.

[Avro]

the answer is in my nickname flying lsd
lsd for in french
licencie en sciences dentaires then dentist!
civil aviation is a passion for me from my first age until today.

Great to have a flying dentist on board as well

[sn26567]

the answer is in my nickname flying lsd

I first thought you were smuggling LSD from Miami to Brussels

[ATC]

There are strong rumours that AA is looking to expand their MIA --> European network . The two favorites for the moment are BRU and FRA.
An annoucement is expected in two to four months from now...

ps.
Knowing that the MIA-FRA route didn't work out a few years ago with the strong Lufthansa competition I have a feeling AA is maybe considering to make BRU a mini european hub. (JFK-BRU/ORD-BRU/MIA-BRU ?).
If SNBA expands its african network this choice would even make more sense for AA.


greetings,
ATC