11/9 scenario Brussels

moons · Post by **moons** » 16 Jul 2004, 12:06

I was wondering the next thing...

On a sunny summerday at Brussels a few terrorists highjack a 737 with destination Rome. As the controllers know what's going on, they know for sure that this plane will never reach Rome. It will be used to attack some "western symbol". Maybe they will fly to the nuclear central of Antwerp...
Not so long ago someone had put some pictures of F-16's intercepting a plane with a radio failure. I know there are 2 F16's stationed in Kleine Brogel, standby day and night. They are armed and ready to intercept (and destroy) their target.
So from the moment ATC knows about the highjacking, how long does it take for those f16's to reach Brussels and that highjacked plane?

Allnipponairways · Post by **Allnipponairways** » 16 Jul 2004, 12:19

thats is verzy dark thinking ... but ok , it will be there very fast i guess ... but wil they shoot or not ... or just force it down ...

greets

moons · Post by **moons** » 16 Jul 2004, 12:32

Indeed very dark thinking... but it happened 3 years ago and it could happen again! So the idea is not new to the world.
I don't know what they'll do in that case. You don't want to shoot down a passenger plane with 150 lives aboard but when you let go of that plane we could be talking about 1000 lives... A very hard decision!!
Shooting down a plane above a very populated area destroys also things on the ground costing also numerous lives.
Anyway if this plane would head to the nuclear central they'll shoot it down for the safety of the nation. A disaster at Doel would also affect my life in the Kempen and the lives of many more!

Post by **sn26567** » 16 Jul 2004, 12:49

Allnipponairways & moons wrote:Indeed very dark thinking.

Always plan for the worst! Not later than yesterday Al Qaeda has sent letters to the European Union offices of Brussels and The Hague threatening to destroy Europen symbols.

This being said, I don't think that a nuclear power station (Doel or Tihange) are sybols, and furthermore they are built to resist a terrorist attack. The Berlaymont in Brussels is more of a symbol (for Europe).

Robin_Bamps · Post by **Robin_Bamps** » 16 Jul 2004, 15:00

Hi André,

This being said, I don't think that a nuclear power station (Doel or Tihange) are sybols, and furthermore they are built to resist a terrorist attack.

The WTC was also built to resist an impact of a Boeing 747, but look what happened...

Regards, Robin Bamps.

moons · Post by **moons** » 16 Jul 2004, 17:39

Doel is ofcourse no symbol, but it could be a target.
Berlaymont is indeed a symbol. As long as they can cause damage it's good for those guys. An attack at Doel would be the latest thing they'll do I think.

Allnipponairways · Post by **Allnipponairways** » 16 Jul 2004, 17:50

lets just say if something like this happens i will not come back to belgium soon , as the ponsioning of the air would be to much nuclear and i like my hair ...and my life , i think my parents would say also stay in japan ... for a while at least ..

greets

anyway, i dont think they would do it with an airplane but with a car bomb ...

1V1 · Post by **1V1** » 16 Jul 2004, 18:13

I would attack "manneke pis". But for such a small target you need a very small plane. Maybe a glider.

moons · Post by **moons** » 16 Jul 2004, 18:20

Well you could make some scenarios but I don't have my answer yet...
Very fast was said...But what's very fast? How many minutes would those fighters take with full afterburners? Are there some good mathematicians around who could calculate it...
Sorry to say this, but when I've a question I would also like a good answer to it, some curiosity from the day I live on this planet

greetzz

Dude320 · Post by **Dude320** » 16 Jul 2004, 21:43

Ever heard of the NATO in Evere ??

This is THE symbol they want to attack maybe ??

Or some EU-buildings ?

PS Dn t forget Dikke Berta in Ostend

rgds,

A318 · Post by **A318** » 16 Jul 2004, 21:58

What about the international court in the Hague?

That would be a nice symbol too for those maniacs!

Greetz,

Erwin

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 16 Jul 2004, 23:47

Come on guys, let's hope such a thing won't happen anymore and lets stop talking about all possibilities.

The defence should be prepared for such possibilities but this doesn't mean that we have to pick out the "next" possible target.

Are there some good mathematicians around who could calculate it...

I'm pretty good in Maths and with all the figures I have I can tell you that they'll be there quickly

No honestly, it's hard to tell, but you can be sure that they can reach there target in a very short period of time.

Chris

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 17 Jul 2004, 00:23

moons wrote:Very fast was said...But what's very fast? How many minutes would those fighters take with full afterburners? Are there some good mathematicians around who could calculate it...

I thought it was < 10 minutes because once in the air, they are able to intercept the plane within 5 minutes (small country

)

left_seat · Post by **left_seat** » 17 Jul 2004, 00:23

Guys, you might want to consider this:
An airliner at full cruise speed crosses Belgium in less minutes than it takes to scramble the F-16s sitting in KB or Florennes (proof : remember the Serbian bizjet crossing our airspace a few years ago? The F16s were warned by the Germans and made contact with the target over the English channel). So, I don't want to sound pessimistic but...

moons · Post by **moons** » 17 Jul 2004, 11:08

They were already warned by Germany and they didn't intercept it in belgian aerospace?! Were those fighter pilots sleeping?
But maybe a bizjet is more difficult to intercept...they fly higher and faster as a airline carrier,no?
Maybe our air force has to practise more on scrambles!

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 17 Jul 2004, 11:43

Why not our WTC towers? Not that much of a simbole, but still...
Anything can be a target...

There is no place in belgium where you can safely shoot an airliner down, to much risk on the ground, I would assume.

How do the ATC controllors know it's a suicide attack and not just a 'regular' highjacking?

moons · Post by **moons** » 17 Jul 2004, 12:34

Well first the pilots will change their squawk code into 7500 which means they are being highjacked and so ATC knows what's going on. Making the difference between a suicide attack or a regular highjacking is a problem but the most simple way to know it is by sending some fighters I think...
Those fighters will force the plane down or to fly a specific route, if the plane doesn't obey than we could be talking of suicide attack I think...
It's to ATC and defence to determine that I think.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 17 Jul 2004, 14:49

Message for the webmaster: please remove this topic! If the guys who are planning such attacks are not as good trained as the 11th Sept terrorists, they get bloody good information here.

moons · Post by **moons** » 17 Jul 2004, 15:29

Maybe that's the best. I've started this topic and now it can be closed.
If this topic shocked anyone of you I apologise myself!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 17 Jul 2004, 18:07

LX-LGX wrote:Message for the webmaster: please remove this topic! If the guys who are planning such attacks are not as good trained as the 11th Sept terrorists, they get bloody good information here.

That's what I tried to say in my first reply but without success.

Chris