TUI Airline in 2025

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koninckske
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by koninckske »

AAI wrote: 11 Aug 2025, 22:40 What's the solution ?
More flights out of ANR ,
All 3 Emb295 all year round !
They are too stupid for that. They like to concentrate everything is Brussels where all the competition is.

Anyway I don't think the TUI Airlines will be around much longer. I expect them to be sold to Ryanair, Transavia or...

The best thing for ANR they could do is to separate the E295 operation to an independent AOC (and maybe sell it to someone intrested in ANR ops) and transfer the 737 ops to Transavia.

Lux_avi
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Lux_avi »

koninckske wrote: 12 Aug 2025, 07:22
AAI wrote: 11 Aug 2025, 22:40 What's the solution ?
More flights out of ANR ,
All 3 Emb295 all year round !
They are too stupid for that. They like to concentrate everything is Brussels where all the competition is.

Anyway I don't think the TUI Airlines will be around much longer. I expect them to be sold to Ryanair, Transavia or...

The best thing for ANR they could do is to separate the E295 operation to an independent AOC (and maybe sell it to someone intrested in ANR ops) and transfer the 737 ops to Transavia.
Sold to Ryanair or Transavia? No way Ryanair or Transavia would be interested in TUI airlines.
They could fly TUI passengers for sure to their holidays, but no way they would take over the airlines, especially in the state they are now.

The E2's probably won't stay much longer in the fleet. At group level, this is a ridiculous ops and I'm sure they want TUI BE to get rid of them when the lease ends.

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longwings
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by longwings »

Lux_avi wrote: 12 Aug 2025, 09:53 Sold to Ryanair or Transavia? No way Ryanair or Transavia would be interested in TUI airlines.
There is a small window where Ryanair is interested. It involves Boeing delaying certification of the Max 10 yet again (Boeing is already telling airlines it could slip from late 2025 to early 2026), and TUI for sale with no serious bidder interested. If Ryanair can get the airline at a deep discount, they just might to gain access to its 737 fleet.

Ryanair's remaining Max 8 deliveries are all due this year (iirc), the Max 10 isn't due until H2 2027. If the Max 10 is delayed into 2028, I don't see Ryanair going two years without growing the fleet.

Likely also a narrow window of time. Given costs involved (acquisition + retrofit), I'd guess Ryanair would want the TUI fleet operational by summer 2026.

Passenger
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Passenger »

koninckske wrote: 12 Aug 2025, 07:22 I don't think the TUI Airlines will be around much longer. I expect them to be sold to Ryanair, Transavia or...
They worked very hard (and invested a lot) to establish TUI Group's vertical integration: travel agency - touroperator - airline - hotel. TUI Shop - TUI - TUI fly - RIU Hotels.

Vertical integration allows them to control the tourism market. Without TUI fly, they don't.

koninckske
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by koninckske »

1/ TUI is already selling packages with Ryanair flights is the UK and with Transavia in The Netherlands.

2/ TUIfly western region is not profitable and losses increased this year (up to June 2025). Other regions are profitable.

3/ Transavia opening a base in BRU next year

Not looking very good in my opinion...

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Atlantis
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Atlantis »

I don't see TUI and TUI FLY disappearing from Belgium but the fleet decreased to half of what they had in the past.

The Belgian market changed. In the past we had City Bird, Thomas Cook, Jetairfly. We have now only Tui Fly who is also using SN a lot.

Discover or Eurowings will not jump in bcs they would shoot in the foot of a member of the group.

For Ryanair the airport is too expensive, so I see only Transavia who can grow and who is partner of a wealthy group.

fcw
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by fcw »

Atlantis wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 00:01 I don't see TUI and TUI FLY disappearing from Belgium but the fleet decreased to half of what they had in the past.

The Belgian market changed. In the past we had City Bird, Thomas Cook, Jetairfly. We have now only Tui Fly who is also using SN a lot.
The market didn’t change: we also had TEA, EBA, Air Belgium I&II, Sobelair.. to name a few and they al went bankrupt!
There simply isn’t a market for a big charter airline in Belgium, never has been. TUI won’t disappear, I think/hope, but the airline will be kept to the bear minimum.

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Atlantis
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Atlantis »

fcw wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 11:14
Atlantis wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 00:01 I don't see TUI and TUI FLY disappearing from Belgium but the fleet decreased to half of what they had in the past.

The Belgian market changed. In the past we had City Bird, Thomas Cook, Jetairfly. We have now only Tui Fly who is also using SN a lot.
The market didn’t change: we also had TEA, EBA, Air Belgium I&II, Sobelair.. to name a few and they al went bankrupt!
There simply isn’t a market for a big charter airline in Belgium, never has been. TUI won’t disappear, I think/hope, but the airline will be kept to the bear minimum.
The market really changed. Remember the many leisure long haul we had with charter airlines? This is hardly existing. Now is the focus on short one to the Mediterranean and North Africa. For long haul they will go with a foreign airline. The market and demand changed.

fcw
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by fcw »

Atlantis wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 16:19
fcw wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 11:14
Atlantis wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 00:01 I don't see TUI and TUI FLY disappearing from Belgium but the fleet decreased to half of what they had in the past.

The Belgian market changed. In the past we had City Bird, Thomas Cook, Jetairfly. We have now only Tui Fly who is also using SN a lot.
The market didn’t change: we also had TEA, EBA, Air Belgium I&II, Sobelair.. to name a few and they al went bankrupt!
There simply isn’t a market for a big charter airline in Belgium, never has been. TUI won’t disappear, I think/hope, but the airline will be kept to the bear minimum.
The market really changed. Remember the many leisure long haul we had with charter airlines? This is hardly existing. Now is the focus on short one to the Mediterranean and North Africa. For long haul they will go with a foreign airline. The market and demand changed.
Leisure longhaul never worked, many tried, nobody was successful.

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Atlantis
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Atlantis »

The Belgians prefer to go 3 to 4 times per year on holiday and this for a shorter time.

The amount of people who are willing to go for a much longer holiday to a far away destination is shrinking. Own airlines cannot offer this bcs too expensive. What they do is to use Emirates or others. Belgium has a too small O&D market for it.

Even when TUI has own hotels, cruise packages, own airline, etc, they can't make a schedule for the only few.

Pity but reality

Lux_avi
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Lux_avi »

Atlantis wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 18:35 The Belgians prefer to go 3 to 4 times per year on holiday and this for a shorter time.

The amount of people who are willing to go for a much longer holiday to a far away destination is shrinking. Own airlines cannot offer this bcs too expensive. What they do is to use Emirates or others. Belgium has a too small O&D market for it.

Even when TUI has own hotels, cruise packages, own airline, etc, they can't make a schedule for the only few.

Pity but reality
The only few? :? Demand has never been that high, TUI is just too expensive compared to the competitors (who are more and more present on the market).

JOVAN2
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by JOVAN2 »

Lux_avi wrote: 18 Aug 2025, 10:23
Atlantis wrote: 17 Aug 2025, 18:35 The Belgians prefer to go 3 to 4 times per year on holiday and this for a shorter time.

The amount of people who are willing to go for a much longer holiday to a far away destination is shrinking. Own airlines cannot offer this bcs too expensive. What they do is to use Emirates or others. Belgium has a too small O&D market for it.

Even when TUI has own hotels, cruise packages, own airline, etc, they can't make a schedule for the only few.

Pity but reality
The only few? :? Demand has never been that high, TUI is just too expensive compared to the competitors (who are more and more present on the market).
With catchment area of 25 million in the richest area of Europe it should be possible to fill several l/h flight to destinations in Caribbean and some places on Latin America.

But again it is management problem of not beingable to find successful formulas to attract PAX..

Stij
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Stij »

My 2 cents...

Yes, we're pretty rich... but...

Belgians are VERY traditional in their holiday destinations... Costa Brava, Costa del Sol, Turkey, Tuscany and France (by car)...
Even when they visit the USA... no surprises: NYC (in summer!!!), Florida or the parks of the West-Coast.

For a period they went to the Caribbean but that fashion is on the way back...

The rest are all exceptions...

Lux_avi
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Lux_avi »

JOVAN2 wrote: 18 Aug 2025, 11:24
With catchment area of 25 million in the richest area of Europe it should be possible to fill several l/h flight to destinations in Caribbean and some places on Latin America.

But again it is management problem of not beingable to find successful formulas to attract PAX..
The issue is not to fill in planes, but how to make these ops profitable.

One delay of more than 3 hours and the company has to pay huge compensation to holiday passengers, 500€ each (x300).
The cost of these EU compensations make tiny long haul operations unprofitable. Margins are way too low to compensate.

Long haul routes by TUI were there as a prestige project and to push away competition from their market.
The group accepted this until things completely changed during & after covid. The group level management now decides of the local AOC fleet, bases & so on based on profitability.

TUIfly BE is severely hit by those decisions. The group cancelled new planes orders during COVID, got rid of plenty of 737's, now face huge delays for new aircraft deliveries and have to rely on lousy wet-leases companies that are bloody expensive & unreliable for their summer ops. There is a reason for their poor financial results, and it's not really due to a change of demand/market.

On top of that, TUI is extremely expensive compared to competitors.

Ask passengers opting for TUI out of LGG, they'll meet plenty of Belgians in the same hotel who opted for Luxair for way less money and a much better service on board. Guess what they do for their next holiday.

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Atlantis
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Atlantis »

Lux_avi wrote: 18 Aug 2025, 12:28
JOVAN2 wrote: 18 Aug 2025, 11:24
With catchment area of 25 million in the richest area of Europe it should be possible to fill several l/h flight to destinations in Caribbean and some places on Latin America.

But again it is management problem of not beingable to find successful formulas to attract PAX..
The issue is not to fill in planes, but how to make these ops profitable.

One delay of more than 3 hours and the company has to pay huge compensation to holiday passengers, 500€ each (x300).
The cost of these EU compensations make tiny long haul operations unprofitable. Margins are way too low to compensate.

Long haul routes by TUI were there as a prestige project and to push away competition from their market.
The group accepted this until things completely changed during & after covid. The group level management now decides of the local AOC fleet, bases & so on based on profitability.

TUIfly BE is severely hit by those decisions. The group cancelled new planes orders during COVID, got rid of plenty of 737's, now face huge delays for new aircraft deliveries and have to rely on lousy wet-leases companies that are bloody expensive & unreliable for their summer ops. There is a reason for their poor financial results, and it's not really due to a change of demand/market.

On top of that, TUI is extremely expensive compared to competitors.

Ask passengers opting for TUI out of LGG, they'll meet plenty of Belgians in the same hotel who opted for Luxair for way less money and a much better service on board. Guess what they do for their next holiday.
To fill the planes is also an issue. Look at Curacao. Air Belgium was not able to make the planes full. TUI exactly the same and this with a lot of adverts in NL. It was not working at all. For Air Belgium it was too expensive.

See now at TUI NL, 30 extra flights between December and March and this on top of the 13 flights a week.

Lux_avi
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Lux_avi »

Atlantis wrote: 19 Aug 2025, 20:00
To fill the planes is also an issue. Look at Curacao. Air Belgium was not able to make the planes full. TUI exactly the same and this with a lot of adverts in NL. It was not working at all. For Air Belgium it was too expensive.

See now at TUI NL, 30 extra flights between December and March and this on top of the 13 flights a week.
True for CUR, they probably expected Dutchies to fly out of BRU as it's not really a destination for Belgians.
But that failed.

Long haul from AMS with TUI NL is also not doing very well.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Welcome to Mike Echo.
I just flew with OO-TME on her sixth revenue flight, having been delivered on Wednesday 22OCT25 straight from Everet.

Still very new to FR24 ….
OO-TME disguised.png

Flight to TIA was +95% LF.

OO-TME at LATI 26OCT25a.jpg
OO-TME at LATI 26OCT25b.jpg

Now repositioning to KOS as JAF951F

H.A.

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OO-JFP
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by OO-JFP »

Re: TUI Airline in 2025
by Homo Aeroportus » 26 Oct 2025 08:48 pm

Welcome to Mike Echo.
According to FR24, Mike Foxtrot will be delivered tomorrow morning (28th) at 8.35AM also from Everett.

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lumumba
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by lumumba »

OO-JFP wrote: 27 Oct 2025, 20:20
Re: TUI Airline in 2025
by Homo Aeroportus » 26 Oct 2025 08:48 pm

Welcome to Mike Echo.
According to FR24, Mike Foxtrot will be delivered tomorrow morning (28th) at 8.35AM also from Everett.
How much more will come ?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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OO-JFP
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Re: TUI Airline in 2025

Post by OO-JFP »

According to this site, it is the last Max for TUI Belgium for the time being. Only other addition is OO-TNB B738 which returns from lease to TUI UK.
https://www.planespotters.net/airline/TUI-fly-Belgium

OO-JFP

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