Brussels Airport (BRU): Border control

[JOVAN2]

About the Arrivals.
In the last two weeks there were (again) two catastrophic days with extremely long waiting tims at passport control in non-schengen pier.
Up to 3 hours waiting.....

Complete scandal. To
Only 2 of 12 counters open.
This smells like sabotage.

BRU is repeatetly failing to attend and solve this huge problem.
The comments given by the woorvoerders are 200% coward talk.
CEO Faust should take his responsibility and he himself go talk to the Ministers tesponsible for police at airport.
No more excuses
.

[Conti764]

About the Arrivals.
In the last two weeks there were (again) two catastrophic days with extremely long waiting tims at passport control in non-schengen pier.
Up to 3 hours waiting.....

Complete scandal. To
Only 2 of 12 counters open.
This smells like sabotage.

BRU is repeatetly failing to attend and solve this huge problem.
The comments given by the woorvoerders are 200% coward talk.
CEO Faust should take his responsibility and he himself go talk to the Ministers tesponsible for police at airport.
No more excuses
.

No sabotage at all. A lack of staff.

Talk with ministers? Fine. Won't solve anything. If you force police officers to work at the airport, they'll leave at the first opportunity.

Want to solve this? Cash is king. Have an airport allocation like you already have a Brussels allocation for police. It's the only way to attract and keep people on board.

[JOVAN2]

There was a time you could only have respect for the gendarmes and police.
Now they really have become spoiled third degree civil servants. Now they have new offices in the satellite, other facilities. They are around 500 "working" at BRU.
Many look like zombies bcs the heavy work.
Making PAX wait so long is simply an act of dabotage. Hope the Minister can call them to order. Heavy sanctions and fines could work

[KriVa]

There was a time you could only have respect for the gendarmes and police.
Now they really have become spoiled third degree civil servants. Now they have new offices in the satellite, other facilities. They are around 500 "working" at BRU.
Many look like zombies bcs the heavy work.
Making PAX wait so long is simply an act of dabotage. Hope the Minister can call them to order. Heavy sanctions and fines could work

So in the exact same post you complain about the police officer performing border control being “spoiled third degree civil servants”, AND you acknowledge they all walk around like zombies because of the heavy work?(probably no in the least due to the lack of staff.)

I’m still wondering how you plan to squeeze more juice from that same, already dry, lemon by having a Minister “call them to order”?
The problem is not that they are not performing their tasks. There’s simply nog enough people to be fully staffed. Want to make things better? Adjust working conditions accordingly: better pay, more holidays, better working rosters,…
But apparently that’s not the solution according to you? How would you fix the problem with the current staffing? Make them work 24/7?

[lumumba]

There was a time you could only have respect for the gendarmes and police.
Now they really have become spoiled third degree civil servants. Now they have new offices in the satellite, other facilities. They are around 500 "working" at BRU.
Many look like zombies bcs the heavy work.
Making PAX wait so long is simply an act of dabotage. Hope the Minister can call them to order. Heavy sanctions and fines could work

So in the exact same post you complain about the police officer performing border control being “spoiled third degree civil servants”, AND you acknowledge they all walk around like zombies because of the heavy work?(probably no in the least due to the lack of staff.)

I’m still wondering how you plan to squeeze more juice from that same, already dry, lemon by having a Minister “call them to order”?
The problem is not that they are not performing their tasks. There’s simply nog enough people to be fully staffed. Want to make things better? Adjust working conditions accordingly: better pay, more holidays, better working rosters,…
But apparently that’s not the solution according to you? How would you fix the problem with the current staffing? Make them work 24/7?

But how is this possible, we are talking here about an important infrastructure and a gateway to Belgium which makes a big profit, I suppose that this contract was negotiated with the government so the problem is at the governmental level.

[lumumba]

There was a time you could only have respect for the gendarmes and police.
Now they really have become spoiled third degree civil servants. Now they have new offices in the satellite, other facilities. They are around 500 "working" at BRU.
Many look like zombies bcs the heavy work.
Making PAX wait so long is simply an act of dabotage. Hope the Minister can call them to order. Heavy sanctions and fines could work

So in the exact same post you complain about the police officer performing border control being “spoiled third degree civil servants”, AND you acknowledge they all walk around like zombies because of the heavy work?(probably no in the least due to the lack of staff.)

I’m still wondering how you plan to squeeze more juice from that same, already dry, lemon by having a Minister “call them to order”?
The problem is not that they are not performing their tasks. There’s simply nog enough people to be fully staffed. Want to make things better? Adjust working conditions accordingly: better pay, more holidays, better working rosters,…
But apparently that’s not the solution according to you? How would you fix the problem with the current staffing? Make them work 24/7?

But how is this possible, we are talking here about an important infrastructure and a gateway to Belgium which makes a big profit, I suppose that this contract was negotiated with the government so the problem is at the governmental level.

[JOVAN2]

There was a time you could only have respect for the gendarmes and police.
Now they really have become spoiled third degree civil servants. Now they have new offices in the satellite, other facilities. They are around 500 "working" at BRU.
Many look like zombies bcs the heavy work.
Making PAX wait so long is simply an act of dabotage. Hope the Minister can call them to order. Heavy sanctions and fines could work

So in the exact same post you complain about the police officer performing border control being “spoiled third degree civil servants”, AND you acknowledge they all walk around like zombies because of the heavy work?(probably no in the least due to the lack of staff.)

I’m still wondering how you plan to squeeze more juice from that same, already dry, lemon by having a Minister “call them to order”?
The problem is not that they are not performing their tasks. There’s simply nog enough people to be fully staffed. Want to make things better? Adjust working conditions accordingly: better pay, more holidays, better working rosters,…
But apparently that’s not the solution according to you? How would you fix the problem with the current staffing? Make them work 24/7?

But how is this possible, we are talking here about an important infrastructure and a gateway to Belgium which makes a big profit I suppose that this contract was negotiated with the government so the problem is at the governmental level

I persist in saying that the police in this country is of incredible low level. Some departments are maybe doing well, but the discipline and sense of being a civil servant (in many countries this is a title to be proud about)… is gone.
Low class poorly educated and spoiled boys and girls with a uniform. Total disgrace.

[Atlantis]

As passenger frequently using BRU, I would be happy to see all these plans turn into reality: while beginning with the security check and continuing into the duty free and Terminal A area, the airport is really nice and up to date, the departure hall is charmingly retro at best (though I love the oldschool departures board) and the arrival area after clearing customs is weird, looking crammed and old - swapping THAT for a big hall with lots of natural light will make sure travelers to Brussels have a nice first impression of the country when they arrive.

As for spotters (guilty as charged myself here), spotting areas along 25R were and are not really optimal. You might be able to spot in the area between the new hall and the hotel, although there seem to be glass walls in the way. But let's be clear: you cannot say that BRU would NOT care for spotters: look at the two platforms - the one at 25L/07R was just renovated recently while the one next to 01/19 is even fit for a small family trip with children. The airport frequently organises events where they include spotters (spotting from the apron, unveiling of new special liveries, etc). I know that there are airports that are spotter-friendly (e.g. ZRH!) - and also others that are not (new IST) or where there is simply no real possibility to better cater for spotters (VIE). I would still say BRU is in the upper part of the "middle of the pack", when it comes to spotter-friendliness.

Would I love a spotting terrace overlooking 25R? Of course! P1 is dreadfully far from the rwy and the small parking next to the bus terminus is suboptimal at best - so yes, I would love to finally have a decent place to spot from. Will it happen? Well, spotters are not exactly the ones who are bringing a lot of revenue - on the other hand, they can be helpful in the airport's PR. It will come down to the question if a viewing terrace can be built that is suitable for spotters, while safe for all people using it, all this at not too high costs.

About the Arrivals.
In the last two weeks there were (again) two catastrophic days with extremely long waiting tims at passport control in non-schengen pier.
Up to 3 hours waiting.....

Complete scandal. To
Only 2 of 12 counters open.
This smells like sabotage.

BRU is repeatetly failing to attend and solve this huge problem.
The comments given by the woorvoerders are 200% coward talk.
CEO Faust should take his responsibility and he himself go talk to the Ministers tesponsible for police at airport.
No more excuses
.

No sabotage at all. A lack of staff.

Talk with ministers? Fine. Won't solve anything. If you force police officers to work at the airport, they'll leave at the first opportunity.

Want to solve this? Cash is king. Have an airport allocation like you already have a Brussels allocation for police. It's the only way to attract and keep people on board.

You know this matter better than me, but the minister would free up people from Frontex and deploy them at BRU.

[Atlantis]

As passenger frequently using BRU, I would be happy to see all these plans turn into reality: while beginning with the security check and continuing into the duty free and Terminal A area, the airport is really nice and up to date, the departure hall is charmingly retro at best (though I love the oldschool departures board) and the arrival area after clearing customs is weird, looking crammed and old - swapping THAT for a big hall with lots of natural light will make sure travelers to Brussels have a nice first impression of the country when they arrive.

As for spotters (guilty as charged myself here), spotting areas along 25R were and are not really optimal. You might be able to spot in the area between the new hall and the hotel, although there seem to be glass walls in the way. But let's be clear: you cannot say that BRU would NOT care for spotters: look at the two platforms - the one at 25L/07R was just renovated recently while the one next to 01/19 is even fit for a small family trip with children. The airport frequently organises events where they include spotters (spotting from the apron, unveiling of new special liveries, etc). I know that there are airports that are spotter-friendly (e.g. ZRH!) - and also others that are not (new IST) or where there is simply no real possibility to better cater for spotters (VIE). I would still say BRU is in the upper part of the "middle of the pack", when it comes to spotter-friendliness.

Would I love a spotting terrace overlooking 25R? Of course! P1 is dreadfully far from the rwy and the small parking next to the bus terminus is suboptimal at best - so yes, I would love to finally have a decent place to spot from. Will it happen? Well, spotters are not exactly the ones who are bringing a lot of revenue - on the other hand, they can be helpful in the airport's PR. It will come down to the question if a viewing terrace can be built that is suitable for spotters, while safe for all people using it, all this at not too high costs.

About the Arrivals.
In the last two weeks there were (again) two catastrophic days with extremely long waiting tims at passport control in non-schengen pier.
Up to 3 hours waiting.....

Complete scandal. To
Only 2 of 12 counters open.
This smells like sabotage.

BRU is repeatetly failing to attend and solve this huge problem.
The comments given by the woorvoerders are 200% coward talk.
CEO Faust should take his responsibility and he himself go talk to the Ministers tesponsible for police at airport.
No more excuses
.

No sabotage at all. A lack of staff.

Talk with ministers? Fine. Won't solve anything. If you force police officers to work at the airport, they'll leave at the first opportunity.

Want to solve this? Cash is king. Have an airport allocation like you already have a Brussels allocation for police. It's the only way to attract and keep people on board.

You know this matter better than me, but the minister would free up people from Frontex and deploy them at BRU.

[Conti764]

There was a time you could only have respect for the gendarmes and police.
Now they really have become spoiled third degree civil servants. Now they have new offices in the satellite, other facilities. They are around 500 "working" at BRU.
Many look like zombies bcs the heavy work.
Making PAX wait so long is simply an act of dabotage. Hope the Minister can call them to order. Heavy sanctions and fines could work

So in the exact same post you complain about the police officer performing border control being “spoiled third degree civil servants”, AND you acknowledge they all walk around like zombies because of the heavy work?(probably no in the least due to the lack of staff.)

I’m still wondering how you plan to squeeze more juice from that same, already dry, lemon by having a Minister “call them to order”?
The problem is not that they are not performing their tasks. There’s simply nog enough people to be fully staffed. Want to make things better? Adjust working conditions accordingly: better pay, more holidays, better working rosters,…
But apparently that’s not the solution according to you? How would you fix the problem with the current staffing? Make them work 24/7?

But how is this possible, we are talking here about an important infrastructure and a gateway to Belgium which makes a big profit, I suppose that this contract was negotiated with the government so the problem is at the governmental level.

Well, first of all there is no contract, there were no negociations. Providing border security is a task of the federal police and as such they do this duty at BRU, but also CRL, LGG, ANR, OST and even Wevelgem. So it's not a question of negociations or agreements like with security firms.
There are ofcourse very regular meetings between the police and BAC where these issues are discussed (amongst others) and BAC is understandably not happy with what happens at the border but there is not much they can do, accept providing the infrastructure to perform the border control.

About the police, and contrary to what an oracle on this board is stating, the police is trying very hard to resolve this issue. The airport police is one unit but has two major divisions: patrol police and border police. In the not so distant past there was a clear separation between the two: you either started as patrol police, or as border police. At some point training to become a border officer was opened up to the patrol police as well, but only with moderate success. Nowadays if you want to work at the airport police it's obligatory to pass the border officer training as well and as such officers working for the patrol police are easily tasked with manning the border control when needed. The everyday tasks of these officers are even reduced if necessary.

A second thing that happened is that the linguistic conditions are dropped. It is now possible for French speaking officers to do border control as well. In the past this was legaly limited to Dutch speaking officers only.

Now there are some major problems. First of all the border police - and especially border control - is a fairly old unit with people at the brink of retirement. They have to be replaced by younger officers.
The airport is in a region where there is much competition with local police forces and young officers leave the academy trained for local police, so the federal police, let alone the airport police, is often not the first choice. Some of them, and many young FR speaking officers are sent to the airport but when the opportunity presents itself they often go to a local police force. And many younger officers choose for the patrol police and back down once they hear they have to man the border control in times of need as well. So there is a lot of movement of officers which already loose a couple of weeks training for the border control.

Secondly, the border control is not only about checking the status of people entering or leaving the country. If there is a suspicion of identity fraud, this has to be investigated, people who are flagged for a judicial procedure also have to be processed. The patrol police is also understaffed and has a major task with following up drug crime, have their regular tasks like homeless people, discussions between staff and pax,...

The only solution I see is attracting more people and like everywhere there is only one thing that can achieve it: €€€...

But BAC is not at fault for the major waiting times at border control, nor is the police itself. It's just the situation that they have due to circumstances they have no say about...

[lumumba]

So in the exact same post you complain about the police officer performing border control being “spoiled third degree civil servants”, AND you acknowledge they all walk around like zombies because of the heavy work?(probably no in the least due to the lack of staff.)

I’m still wondering how you plan to squeeze more juice from that same, already dry, lemon by having a Minister “call them to order”?
The problem is not that they are not performing their tasks. There’s simply nog enough people to be fully staffed. Want to make things better? Adjust working conditions accordingly: better pay, more holidays, better working rosters,…
But apparently that’s not the solution according to you? How would you fix the problem with the current staffing? Make them work 24/7?

But how is this possible, we are talking here about an important infrastructure and a gateway to Belgium which makes a big profit, I suppose that this contract was negotiated with the government so the problem is at the governmental level.

Well, first of all there is no contract, there were no negociations. Providing border security is a task of the federal police and as such they do this duty at BRU, but also CRL, LGG, ANR, OST and even Wevelgem. So it's not a question of negociations or agreements like with security firms.
There are ofcourse very regular meetings between the police and BAC where these issues are discussed (amongst others) and BAC is understandably not happy with what happens at the border but there is not much they can do, accept providing the infrastructure to perform the border control.

About the police, and contrary to what an oracle on this board is stating, the police is trying very hard to resolve this issue. The airport police is one unit but has two major divisions: patrol police and border police. In the not so distant past there was a clear separation between the two: you either started as patrol police, or as border police. At some point training to become a border officer was opened up to the patrol police as well, but only with moderate success. Nowadays if you want to work at the airport police it's obligatory to pass the border officer training as well and as such officers working for the patrol police are easily tasked with manning the border control when needed. The everyday tasks of these officers are even reduced if necessary.

A second thing that happened is that the linguistic conditions are dropped. It is now possible for French speaking officers to do border control as well. In the past this was legaly limited to Dutch speaking officers only.

Now there are some major problems. First of all the border police - and especially border control - is a fairly old unit with people at the brink of retirement. They have to be replaced by younger officers.
The airport is in a region where there is much competition with local police forces and young officers leave the academy trained for local police, so the federal police, let alone the airport police, is often not the first choice. Some of them, and many young FR speaking officers are sent to the airport but when the opportunity presents itself they often go to a local police force. And many younger officers choose for the patrol police and back down once they hear they have to man the border control in times of need as well. So there is a lot of movement of officers which already loose a couple of weeks training for the border control.

Secondly, the border control is not only about checking the status of people entering or leaving the country. If there is a suspicion of identity fraud, this has to be investigated, people who are flagged for a judicial procedure also have to be processed. The patrol police is also understaffed and has a major task with following up drug crime, have their regular tasks like homeless people, discussions between staff and pax,...

The only solution I see is attracting more people and like everywhere there is only one thing that can achieve it: €€€...

But BAC is not at fault for the major waiting times at border control, nor is the police itself. It's just the situation that they have due to circumstances they have no say about...

Thx.

[lumumba]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

[Conti764]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Plain and simple answer: it's their job.

[lumumba]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Plain and simple answer: it's their job.

Ok they can relax somtime so things can go smooth.

[Conti764]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Plain and simple answer: it's their job.

Ok they can relax somtime so things can go smooth.

In the afternoon: yes. But morning arrivals are hellish.

[Atlantis]

Plain and simple answer: it's their job.

Ok they can relax somtime so things can go smooth.

In the afternoon: yes. But morning arrivals are hellish.

That's why BRU should actively encourage current long haul airlines and new ones to spread more over the day.

On this was BRU can participate in the current issues of the understaffed police

[fcw]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Seriously?
What an insulting and misplaced comment, they are just doing their job!
During peak times queues are long at almost every airport. (Eg Malaga often has 2-3 hours queue for non-EU passport holders.)

[lumumba]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Seriously?
What an insulting and misplaced comment, they are just doing their job!
During peak times queues are long at almost every airport. (Eg Malaga often has 2-3 hours queue for non-EU passport holders.)

What's the problem to be more flexible in dealing with passport controls....Schengen is not airtight, no need too anyway.
That's the only solution to reduce the waiting time so let's do it.

[fcw]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Seriously?
What an insulting and misplaced comment, they are just doing their job!
During peak times queues are long at almost every airport. (Eg Malaga often has 2-3 hours queue for non-EU passport holders.)

What's the problem to be more flexible in dealing with passport controls....Schengen is not airtight, no need too anyway.
That's the only solution to reduce the waiting time so let's do it.

Let’s be honest it’s not flexibility your asking for, it’s a serious reduction of control over who enters the country.
Queues exists at any border, they’re longer during peak times, just deal with it.
Or maybe, next time you go the USA, Luanda or wherever there’s queue at passport control just step to the front and request them to be flexible and if they don’t agree call them “gestapo”

[Conti764]

Why does the police absolutely want to check everyone? If there are too many people passing through for a few months, we can relax, it looks like the Gestapo!

Seriously?
What an insulting and misplaced comment, they are just doing their job!
During peak times queues are long at almost every airport. (Eg Malaga often has 2-3 hours queue for non-EU passport holders.)

What's the problem to be more flexible in dealing with passport controls....Schengen is not airtight, no need too anyway.
That's the only solution to reduce the waiting time so let's do it.

It's not just checking a passport, or more 'whether the person presenting you his passport is the person on the photo', but it is absout a more thorough check whether the passport presented is real, whether the visum is valid and, secondly, whether this person is in a national or international database.

There are quite some people being intercepted who have to serve prison time, who are searched for nationally and internationally. Would you like all these people to just fall through the net because you don't like to wait at passportcontrol?

My neighbours went to Miami some weeks ago, they had to stand in line for a couple of hours before it was their turn (tightened passport checks, thightend ESTA-checks,...)

And every stamp in a passport has a number that can be traced back to the issuing officer. If it turns out he or she missed a person who shouldn't be walking around freely, shit hits the fan for this officer.