Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[fcw]

SN announced there would be a growth from 44 to 50 planes this summer: 11 long-haul (+1), 4 from Baltic (+4), 35 short- and medium haul (A319, A320, A320neo, so +1).

A bit pedantic, but the Air Baltic ones are wet leased so they’re not part of SN’s fleet.

[oldblueeyes]

SN announced there would be a growth from 44 to 50 planes this summer: 11 long-haul (+1), 4 from Baltic (+4), 35 short- and medium haul (A319, A320, A320neo, so +1).

A bit pedantic, but the Air Baltic ones are wet leased so they’re not part of SN’s fleet.

Who cares?

They will fly passengers, produce revenue, secure market share etc.

LH has a multi year contract for i believe 21 aircraft from Air Baltic for the summer season - if SN would have nothing allocated those peeing always against the wind would have claimed that growth happens outside the brand, now that 4 aircraft are allocated, isn't good either.

See it realistically, the bonds between Air Baltic and Lufthansa are getting tighter, there are rumors about an equity participation from LH in the company. And wet leases for the season are something perfectly natural and a growing business across all Europe.

[fcw]

SN announced there would be a growth from 44 to 50 planes this summer: 11 long-haul (+1), 4 from Baltic (+4), 35 short- and medium haul (A319, A320, A320neo, so +1).

A bit pedantic, but the Air Baltic ones are wet leased so they’re not part of SN’s fleet.

Who cares?

They will fly passengers, produce revenue, secure market share etc.

LH has a multi year contract for i believe 21 aircraft from Air Baltic for the summer season - if SN would have nothing allocated those peeing always against the wind would have claimed that growth happens outside the brand, now that 4 aircraft are allocated, isn't good either.

See it realistically, the bonds between Air Baltic and Lufthansa are getting tighter, there are rumors about an equity participation from LH in the company. And wet leases for the season are something perfectly natural and a growing business across all Europe.

I agree with you OBE, but this a forum where people are interested where maintenance take place, which aircraft is painted where, which 319 is replaced by which NEO,…. For them every detail is important, so just just to be exact these aircraft are operated by Air Baltic and are part of the Air Baltic fleet. Remember when it all got t!ts up with the City Jet wet lease, a couple of a years ago, SN was quick to distance themselves from the operating carrier.
Although wet lease is indeed common during peak season one can’t deny the main objective of this Air Baltic operation is to undercut existing labour conditions.

[oldblueeyes]

I see it rather as a compromise between two worlds.

Put it straight, SN is acting in a market where also Wizz and Ryanair and co are delivering services, with certain cost advantages. Some of them i see as profoundly imoral such as the whole chain of subcontracting firms for personnel or pay-for-fly pressure in years with pilots flooding the market, but some of them are driven by a different approach:
- cabin crew employment is not seen as a lifelong career, but just as a job for some years, mainly for younger people
- taxation in Eastern Europe is lower, as a consequence of an attitude supporting working people and not lazy social welfare takers (don't get me wrong here, i acknowledge that social solidarity is a strong value)
- seasonal work is less regulated - likely that some sort of deregulation is not seen as an issue by younger, more flexible workforce vs a more mature one being in a long time employment and with family obligations etc.

As long as it is a peak and is not eroding the local forces conditions, it should be fine.
Please also remember that inside the group SN got a certain workload towards other hubs because it's own cost base is lower than from the other end.

[Atlantis]

Hi all,

I just saw that OO-SFJ and OO-SFP will be repainted in March 2025 and 2025 (which month?) respectively.

See https://sites.google.com/view/europeanairlinefleets/bel

Does this mean that no other A333 will be repainted before the summer season?

Happy 2025!

Danny

I can say that SN did a hell of a job during the Winter already. Quite some planes had their maintenance and others their new livery. SN will be ready for a very busy Summer.

Remember how it was in 2023 when a lot of maintenance was canceled or moved to Spring and Summer?

Well done SN

[Duke]

I just saw that OO-SFH is coming back to Brussels. It flew yesterday from manila to Abu Dhabi. Will do the Abu Dhabi - Brussels section this evening/night.


At the same time OO-SFG will leave for Abu Dhabi today (4/01), so yet another that will get C or D-checks (I assume in Manila again) ...

Cheers,
Danny

Are those flights operated by regular SN crews?
How many pilots? I guess at least 4.. and also some flight attendants to provide for the catering and the assistance of the pilots?
How do they get back from Manila or get there? As a passenger on a commercial flight? Do they fly in business class then? Must be a very nice trip to do...

[fcw]

and also some flight attendants to provide for the catering and the assistance of the pilots?

Better than that: a Michelin starred chef to cook fresh lobster on board.

Joking aside: pilots are well capable of making coffee and heating their meals themselves, so no F/A.
With a stop in AUH, you would, typically, have two pilots flying MNL-AUH and then continue deadheading to BRU whilst two colleagues, who positioned from BRU to AUH, take over.
Positioning before or after MNL is normally in business class indeed, but without much leisure time in MNL.

[lumumba]

There where again a lot of cancelations on the long haul the last 2 weeks!!!

[luchtzak]

A story goes that a pilot only survives two years after retirement. As his wife forgets he has to eat and drink every three hours. But no, flight attendants are usually not on board to cater the pilots.

[crew1990]

also some flight attendants to provide for the catering and the assistance of the pilots?

Thanks for the laugh, don’t worry we give pilot a e-learning on how work an oven, a coffee maker, how to close and arm the door from inside and we give them a map of where to find the refill of toilet paper.

Joke aside the role of the flight attendant are to ensure the safety and security of the passengers, if no passengers, no flight attendant needed. Special case, if there is cargo in the cabin like during the covid, then a cabin crew is required for fire prevention etc.

In general those flight are composed of 4 pilots but also ingeneer as during the ground time some modifications to the cabin are done at the same time, mood light, carpet, seat cover etc

[Boavida]

There where again a lot of cancelations on the long haul the last 2 weeks!!!

Today, SN501 to JFK was cancelled again (OO-SFH)...

The plane's flight to Nairobi tomorrow is also cancelled.

Technical issue?

The unreliability of SN's long haul operations is becoming a real problem.

[nordikcam]

There where again a lot of cancelations on the long haul the last 2 weeks!!!

Today, SN501 to JFK was cancelled again (OO-SFH)...

The plane's flight to Nairobi tomorrow is also cancelled.

Technical issue?

The unreliability of SN's long haul operations is becoming a real problem.

And yesterday Dakar...and...Stop ! Sad !

[Lux_avi]

also some flight attendants to provide for the catering and the assistance of the pilots?

Thanks for the laugh, don’t worry we give pilot a e-learning on how work an oven, a coffee maker, how to close and arm the door from inside and we give them a map of where to find the refill of toilet paper.

Ethiopian long haul cargo flights have a flight attendant to do exactly that.
Duke's question might be laughable in our very developed country that Belgium is. But not in Ethiopia...

[crew1990]

Yes yes great for them

Depending of the type of cargo for exemple in case of animal care team on board etc, and where the cargo is loaded there might be the need of cabin crew. And no this is not for the basic need of pilot.

In the case of brussels airlines we are talking about a ferry flight here...

[convair]

There where again a lot of cancelations on the long haul the last 2 weeks!!!

Today, SN501 to JFK was cancelled again (OO-SFH)...

The plane's flight to Nairobi tomorrow is also cancelled.

Technical issue?

The unreliability of SN's long haul operations is becoming a real problem.

Problem might be with SFP that hasn't flown since Dec 30.
Also SFH back from MNL seems unavailable.

[Lux_avi]

Yes yes great for them

Depending of the type of cargo for exemple in case of animal care team on board etc, and where the cargo is loaded there might be the need of cabin crew. And no this is not for the basic need of pilot.

Are you 200% sure about that, or you think you know?

[Duke]

Problem might be with SFP that hasn't flown since Dec 30.

FR24 mentions SFP doing a few flights today as SN 9903 - 9905 - 9909, out of Brussels, destination Brussels.
Are these test flights?
Or training flights?

[nordikcam]

I can say that SN did a hell of a job during the Winter already. Quite some planes had their maintenance and others their new livery. SN will be ready for a very busy Summer.

Remember how it was in 2023 when a lot of maintenance was canceled or moved to Spring and Summer?

Well done SN

Wel done ! Yess but since twoo weeks, eveyday they cancel a flight...As serious as they are on the European network, this is absolutely not the case on the intercontinental for years!

[Atlantis]

I can say that SN did a hell of a job during the Winter already. Quite some planes had their maintenance and others their new livery. SN will be ready for a very busy Summer.

Remember how it was in 2023 when a lot of maintenance was canceled or moved to Spring and Summer?

Well done SN

Wel done ! Yess but since twoo weeks, eveyday they cancel a flight...As serious as they are on the European network, this is absolutely not the case on the intercontinental for years!

I have no idea why they cancel certain flights. Maybe lack of pax or crew or technical? Winter is a very slow moment for them intercontinental.

Also KLM warned already for the next Summer season that they will be forced to cancel quite some intercontinental flights bcs of shortage of flight crew.

[rwandan-flyer]

I can say that SN did a hell of a job during the Winter already. Quite some planes had their maintenance and others their new livery. SN will be ready for a very busy Summer.

Remember how it was in 2023 when a lot of maintenance was canceled or moved to Spring and Summer?

Well done SN

Wel done ! Yess but since twoo weeks, eveyday they cancel a flight...As serious as they are on the European network, this is absolutely not the case on the intercontinental for years!

I have no idea why they cancel certain flights. Maybe lack of pax or crew or technical? Winter is a very slow moment for them intercontinental.

Also KLM warned already for the next Summer season that they will be forced to cancel quite some intercontinental flights bcs of shortage of flight crew.

Christmas period is very challenging.

Lots of flights to meed the demand, bad weather which can lead to some delays or cancelations due sometimes to diversion and crew who reached their duty time limit, many staff wants their holidays with their family. You can have staff calling in sick after the 25Dec or 1st Jan or because their company has refused to give holidays during the Christmas.

Several LCC in France had huge delays (sometimes over 24hrs) or had canceled flights, the last 2 weeks. Same thing at Paris Cdg.

From Mid January to Mid March, the demand is very low and many airlines reduce or suspend flights on some routes. It will be more easy for airlines

If Brussels Airlines doesn't have enough reserve crew or has a shortage for the mechanical staff when an aircraft has tech issue or will get a spare part in 7 days, SN will have to cancel flights.

Atlantis has put his finger on the fact that all airlines STILL struggling (so not only SN) to deal with the current demand : not enough airplanes and staff, delays for deliveries, delays to get spare parts.

Can you imagine you have more passengers traffic than before the covid but with less aircraft and staff. I can understand for people outside aviation it's hard to to imagine this but i understand that they ask themselves questions.

But it takes time to hire and train people. Furthemore a big part of staff fired or left aviation during the covid was high skilled staff.