Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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longwings
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by longwings »

oldblueeyes wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 04:23 There is nothing wrong in having a spare aircraft. This does not mean 1 non working aircraft, but optimising rotations, as critical mass of the fleet is achieved.
Depends what you mean by "optimizing rotation." If it is keeping an aircraft idle and ready to fly every morning, that's a hot spare, even if the aircraft is different every day. That is not justified or justifiable by the size of the fleet.

It may be a necessary commercial decision to address a chronic reliability issue, but it is not "normal," hence what did they do wrong to get to that point? Or do they have extremely bad luck?

If "optimizing rotations" means on some days an aircraft is at base being maintained, that is not a spare, hot or cold, that is an aircraft inoperable due to (planned) maintenance. And again, with the fleet of this size it should certainly not happen every week.
oldblueeyes wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 04:23 Why do you focus on leasing cost, only? Total operating cost is key and seasonality may play a role here.
Because I was replying to a comment about the relative cost of leasing an A220 vs A319.

fcw
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by fcw »

longwings wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 06:54 It may be a necessary commercial decision to address a chronic reliability issue, but it is not "normal," hence what did they do wrong to get to that point? Or do they have extremely bad luck?
Aircraft do break down and do have incidents, you don’t seem to understand nor accept this.
A spare aircraft creates the necessary resilience to minimise disruption and the cost of disruption.

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by DannyVDB »

Indeed, since SN opted for a spare aircraft (rotating), there were almost no cancellations anymore (a few days there were two planes out which caused cancellation, but that's it).
D

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Boavida »

luchtzak wrote: 09 Sep 2024, 20:09 Next Friday, Brussels Airlines will hold a press conference on future MH and LH fleet. Aviation24.be will keep you posted ASAP!
A350 announcement? :P

fcw
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by fcw »

Ryanair even have a Learjet on hot standby to transport crew, mechanics and spare parts around the network in order to minimise disruption.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

A350 annoucement not yet I guess, still to early.

My guess is more on the annoucement of a new A330 for next year as it has not been yet announced officially. Also LH group still have 19 A320neo ans 17 A321neo not allocated so I guess we could hear about that tomorro, this could mean the introduction of A321neo in the fleet which could totally make sense with the shortage of pilot to introduce aircraft with higher capacity.

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

Let's try to pull together all ammouncements and rumors of the last 2 years, as everything would be around them:

1. Gradual phase out of the 319 and ideally all 320NEO fleet
2. Consideration of larger aircraft, eg 321 as a subfleet (no specification if NEO oder CEO)
3. Growth pattern 2xnarrowbodies and 1x widebody per year
4. Likely wetleases via Air Baltic to come (unclear if seasonal or permanent)
5. Initial judgements or future widebody fleet, eg 789 vs 359

Personally, i would consider here following options as realistic
- 321 could be a short term growth option, likely with used 321CEO from LH as their old aircraft are coming back to service
- 319 may stay longer, as there is no pressure to replace them and likely the brand becoming 737 MAX would give into the network a portion of it's Airbus fleet
- Air Baltic wetleases may open the doors for new destinations
- maybe more than 1 additional 330 confirmed

What is out of the spot yet is a new Business Cabin, where there are some improvements happening in the 2nd tier brands

- Austrian is having the all aisle access Super Diamond in their 789, similar to the 5 to be transferred from LH -likely this would become their new standard
- the Vantage XL - is announced as choice for retrofit of the A380, it is alreadyinstalled in the A350 ex PIA Lufthana operates - with the 4x359 rumored lately for Eurowings, likely this seat choice would go to Eurowings
- Eurowings shall get all aisle access seats as well, the Vantage XL is rumored as double fit with the choice for the 380 and the 359 leased from the market
- Edelweiss is planing a start with what they have and than a gradual upgrade of their A359 to all aisle access business class
- ITA is having the Vantage XL as well in it's 339 and the Super Diamond on the 359 - so it fits at both ends in the group

Having in mind that it was already announced that the smaller brands would get a new business class of the shelf and that most of the brands are already active or at least there are some initial signs, it would be an educated guess to consider here a move from SN as well.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 »

longwings wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 06:54
oldblueeyes wrote: 11 Sep 2024, 04:23 There is nothing wrong in having a spare aircraft. This does not mean 1 non working aircraft, but optimising rotations, as critical mass of the fleet is achieved.
Depends what you mean by "optimizing rotation." If it is keeping an aircraft idle and ready to fly every morning, that's a hot spare, even if the aircraft is different every day. That is not justified or justifiable by the size of the fleet.
Having a spare A330 just for SN isn't indeed justifiable by the size of the fleet: it would mean 10% of the long-haul fleet being on standby, just in case something happens. But at the level of the LH group, it would make sense, and it's already happening on a limited scale: remember the Austrian 777-200 coming to the rescue of a SWISS 777-300 in Astana, Kazakhstan, last month: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... l-setback/.
André
ex Sabena #26567

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

It's all about economics and nothing else.

First of all , ongoing costs - we speak about used A330, so the average dry lease rate would be like 300k per month? -> you can easily calculate that this costs equalys the opportunity ocst of 1 lost rotation per month, if you count passanger claims, hotel, rerouting via other airlines etc.
With an ageing fleet, such a solution may be the wiser option, as the company can obviously not afford short term newer aircraft.

Secondlly, you have to look at the fleet utilisation rate - knwojg that you have certainbackup capacity available, you can squeeze more sectors or use available spare capacity to to find solutions at tight turnarounds - "spare" flies out and incoming aircraft becomes "spare" at the risk of a delay for cleaning etc.

Last but not least, it is a mitigation of risk - SN does not fly destinations where the next maintenace hangar is just at the other end of the airport - and the more "exoti" the destination, the higher the risk of delays or unforseen technical issues without quick maintenance options.

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skumfiduse
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by skumfiduse »

oldblueeyes wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 18:23 It's all about economics and nothing else.

First of all , ongoing costs - we speak about used A330, so the average dry lease rate would be like 300k per month? -> you can easily calculate that this costs equalys the opportunity ocst of 1 lost rotation per month, if you count passanger claims, hotel, rerouting via other airlines etc.
With an ageing fleet, such a solution may be the wiser option, as the company can obviously not afford short term newer aircraft.

Secondlly, you have to look at the fleet utilisation rate - knwojg that you have certainbackup capacity available, you can squeeze more sectors or use available spare capacity to to find solutions at tight turnarounds - "spare" flies out and incoming aircraft becomes "spare" at the risk of a delay for cleaning etc.

Last but not least, it is a mitigation of risk - SN does not fly destinations where the next maintenace hangar is just at the other end of the airport - and the more "exoti" the destination, the higher the risk of delays or unforseen technical issues without quick maintenance options.
Exactly this! From our point of view, we're somehow "disappointed" when a new aircraft comes in, it doesn't result in a new destination or more frequencies. We tend to overlook the "hidden" investment of reliability and stability in the existing product offer... in a market with tough conditions... in which Brussels Airlines is a reference within its league.

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longwings
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by longwings »

Idling 10% of the fleet not standard industry practice to protect against an industry average 2% flight cancellation rate (1). How many other airlines of comparable size do this?

(1) all causes combined - including the ones where a spare aircraft is useless, e.g. bad weather prevents landing at destination.
oldblueeyes wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 18:23First of all , ongoing costs - we speak about used A330, so the average dry lease rate would be like 300k per month? -> you can easily calculate that this costs equalys the opportunity ocst of 1 lost rotation per month, if you count passanger claims, hotel, rerouting via other airlines etc.
Opportunity cost is the value of the next best alternative to the allocation of an asset. In your scenario, the opportunity cost is the millions of € in annual revenue that could be earned flying passengers instead of idling 10% of the fleet on any given day. For the cost savings from a hot spare to exceed the opportunity cost of the spare, the reliability must be far worse than the 2% industry average.

Especially when you consider that a spare in BRU may not be helpful if the cancellation is at an outstation.

If Brussels indeed plans to have a spare aircraft ready to go on all/most days (remember this is still not confirmed), this points to a low dispatch rate. So back to my original question,what are they doing wrong?
oldblueeyes wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 18:23Last but not least, it is a mitigation of risk - SN does not fly destinations where the next maintenace hangar is just at the other end of the airport - and the more "exoti" the destination, the higher the risk of delays or unforseen technical issues without quick maintenance options.
Therein lies the beginning of an answer. When Brussels needs a spare part not in inventory in BRU, there are multiple options nearby where it could be sourced from, and a Satair store in HAM. If that part is not available locally in Africa, the nearest Satair store is in DXB. That is an exponentially larger problem when most of your long-haul fleet is in Africa for a large part of the day. Maybe Brussels is unlucky, or maybe they need more parts in more places, or earlier preventative parts replacements - which costs more.
oldblueeyes wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 18:23Secondlly, you have to look at the fleet utilisation rate - knwojg that you have certainbackup capacity available, you can squeeze more sectors or use available spare capacity to to find solutions at tight turnarounds - "spare" flies out and incoming aircraft becomes "spare" at the risk of a delay for cleaning etc.
That is broadly the concept of a rolling spare, but it is applicable only when airlines have multiple waves of the type per day. The rolling spare concept does not work when all aircraft arrive and depart at around the same times.
fcw wrote: 12 Sep 2024, 08:47Aircraft do break down and do have incidents, you don’t seem to understand nor accept this.
Thanks for the laugh.

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

Don't use mixed statistics of short- and long haul.

Just recall the number of days off during the last 2 seasons due to whatever dumm driver in Abijan, AOG in Dakkar, passangers Stuck in Kinshasa and so on.

This is real life, not statistics.

And yes, you need always more aircraft than routes, simply because you need to count time for heavy maintenance of the entire fleet etc.

1 C check wave for all 330 means net half a year capacity of an aircraft.

If you are in front of a D check wave, count 4-6 weeks per aircraft and see what you get.

Now count everything together and think about reliability of a flight program or productivity gains, resilience etc.

Have you been ever exposed in your life on anything such as production planning, resilience of supply etc in any industry?

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Boeing767copilot »

2 extra A330's
3 A321's to replace the 3 oldest A319's
Wetlease equipment during the busy summer season

Matt
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Matt »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 13 Sep 2024, 08:57 2 extra A330's
3 A321's to replace the 3 oldest A319's
Wetlease equipment during the busy summer season
This is official?

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Matt wrote: 13 Sep 2024, 09:24
Boeing767copilot wrote: 13 Sep 2024, 08:57 2 extra A330's
3 A321's to replace the 3 oldest A319's
Wetlease equipment during the busy summer season
This is official?
Not at all

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

-Fleet will grow to 13 A330 in the coming years
-There will be for this summer 4 Air Baltic A220 based in BRU.
-SFP, SFX, SFJ and the coming 3 A330 will receive a brand new cabin in all classes.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by luchtzak »

crew1990 wrote: 13 Sep 2024, 10:57 -Fleet will grow to 13 A330 in the coming years
-There will be for this summer 4 Air Baltic A220 based in BRU.
-SFP, SFX, SFJ and the coming 3 A330 will receive a brand new cabin in all classes.
In detail: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... ion-plans/

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

The greatest news for me is that there will finally be a curtain divider between business and economy on the medium haul fleet! Finally!!!

theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by theeuropean »

In the link above it says 3 A330’s in 2025 but the SN press release says in the coming years. To have 13 A330s by end of next year seems optimistic to me unless I’m wrong…happy to see Billund back and excited to see more frequencies and potential new destinations in the future. Happy that AC and UA co-operation is growing.

Ced
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Ced »

A bit disappointed nothing is mentioned since March on new routes to the US with star Alliance partners... No details on this US Africa hub seem to have leaked...

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