Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[convair]

It is fully understandable that people are curious .
Just that this business is a little bit more complicated than a marketing speech.
Delta is a profitability king by deliberately choosing to run a mix of new and older aircraft ( the 717 are a classic example of getting a right fit subfleet at low cost becuase nobody wanted that model).
United was choosing few years ago to to buy mid life A319 instead of new B737 MAX in order to reduce investment and the return per spent dollar doubled.

Ultimatevly the goal of each airline is to earn money, something that is not a selfunderstanding thing in this industry. And on top not all competitors are playing under similar conditions - there are state supported airlines , no matter how shitty their economics are or airlines playing with the proud of regional politics in remote regions cashing in taxpayers money to support regional pride - in your country rather ethnical pride.

That's a reasonnable approach, imho. I don't think many people ask how old is the aircraft before booking their flight.

[oldblueeyes]

Most of them especially in the leisure part do not even know with whom they are flying.

[Conti764]

Most of them especially in the leisure part do not even know with whom they are flying.

We fly to Turkey from Cologne end of June, flight executed by Mavi Gök Airlines. They have 9 Boeings 737 and... 3 Boeings 777. My son - aspiring aviation enthousiast - is hoping for the T7. It could also be a 737. Or an A330-2/300 from air Anka. Or a 737 from Tailwind. Or a 737 from SkyLine (Ukraine)...

Kind of an old school experience as consequence: we have to be early at the airport to select our seats

[oldblueeyes]

But the majority is not at the standard of aviationn geeks.

And 90% of the perception is rather driven by cabin design. On long haul it makes a difference, but on the typical European short haul route rather not.

[nordikcam]

OO-SFC still in MAN for C-check till the 8th of May.
OO-SFD will leave today to SIN for C-check probably till the end of May.
OO-SFB will normally go to the paintshop at the end of May

OO-SFC apparently extends its English stay...

[Delta Sierra]

OO-SFC still in MAN for C-check till the 8th of May.
OO-SFD will leave today to SIN for C-check probably till the end of May.
OO-SFB will normally go to the paintshop at the end of May

OO-SFC apparently extends its English stay...

OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.

[Atlantis]

OO-SFC still in MAN for C-check till the 8th of May.
OO-SFD will leave today to SIN for C-check probably till the end of May.
OO-SFB will normally go to the paintshop at the end of May

OO-SFC apparently extends its English stay...

OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.

Thanks for the info. But is this not quite late to do now C-checks while it is already Summerseason? I would expect that they do it during Winter.

Not sure if it is correct, but is the D-AIKG expected on 01.06 just before they will starts flights to Nairobi?

[DannyVDB]

OO-SFC still in MAN for C-check till the 8th of May.
OO-SFD will leave today to SIN for C-check probably till the end of May.
OO-SFB will normally go to the paintshop at the end of May

OO-SFC apparently extends its English stay...

OO-SFF will go to MAN on Friday for C-check and
OO-SFC will return home on Friday.

D-AIKG did a test flight on the 29th of April but still not confirmed when the aircraft will be ferried to Brussels.

But that would mean they still only have 7 (or even 6) long haul planes available since also SFD is in maintenance and SFP is as you say not yet in Brussels. And SFB would go to the paint shop in two weeks time.

Can they maintain the foreseen number of flights ....

Danny

[lumumba]

That's why there is only 1 flight a week for the moment to Luanda....

[nordikcam]

6 Aircrafts...so 4 or 5 flights to Africa ! We hare far from the hub to Africa. I guess AF/KL or BA shouldn't be shaking...

[Boavida]

And SFB would go to the paint shop in two weeks time.

Finally. About time the EW-liveries leave the fleet. (it's almost 3 years after the introduction of the new livery and only 2 long haul planes have been repainted...)

6 Aircrafts...so 4 or 5 flights to Africa ! We hare far from the hub to Africa. I guess AF/KL or BA shouldn't be shaking...

Indeed... SN needs a (modern) long haul fleet of at least 15 planes a.s.a.p. to sustain a decent and reliable(!) long haul network.

[JOVAN2]

And SFB would go to the paint shop in two weeks time.

Finally. About time the EW-liveries leave the fleet. (it's almost 3 years after the introduction of the new livery and only 2 long haul planes have been repainted...)

6 Aircrafts...so 4 or 5 flights to Africa ! We hare far from the hub to Africa. I guess AF/KL or BA shouldn't be shaking...

Indeed... SN needs a (modern) long haul fleet of at least 15 planes a.s.a.p. to sustain a decent and reliable(!) long haul network.

Forget Africa-hub.
DELTA KLM AF are really big.
Spohr is chaotic with his plans and has no good intentions with SN.

[TimTam]

I agree. But the Big Boss never had good intentions with SN. Past or recent declarations were just a smoke screen. His "sergeants" will never disagree with him. If you see the expansion plans of EasyJet it is again obvious to me that SN needs A321 long range to increase destinations and frequencies (trafic rights permitting) to Western abd Central Africa. I know I might be told again that this does not match with the Group's strategy and policies. Does SN fit in the group's strategy ? No. So ?

[oldblueeyes]

Right.

AF-KLM Group - approx 580 aircraft , there of approx 180 long haul
Lufthansa Group - approx 720 aircraft, there of approx 200 long haul

So yeah, AF- KLM is bigger.You should be consistent in your bashing.

Either you look towards Easyjet -> than you should realize that integrating SN into Eurowings would have been a good idea or you look towards long haul and compare even with AF/KLM, but than you need to realize that by no means you have something to compare, since they have no mini-hub as BRU is.

And as little as you like it, the time of small national loss making airlines flying headless and burning money is over. What independent peanuts can reach you can see at Air Belgium.

And you like it or not, currently there is no A321XLR ordered for the group. It is a niche market, ordered as of today mainly by Indigo Partners, the mother company of WIzz and co. So the scenario of the LH group ordering it would be driven rather by a brand such as Eurowings which on other hand is fine with the range of the regular NEO's.

[rwandan-flyer]

And SFB would go to the paint shop in two weeks time.

Finally. About time the EW-liveries leave the fleet. (it's almost 3 years after the introduction of the new livery and only 2 long haul planes have been repainted...)

6 Aircrafts...so 4 or 5 flights to Africa ! We hare far from the hub to Africa. I guess AF/KL or BA shouldn't be shaking...

Indeed... SN needs a (modern) long haul fleet of at least 15 planes a.s.a.p. to sustain a decent and reliable(!) long haul network.

Forget Africa-hub.
DELTA KLM AF are really big.
Spohr is chaotic with his plans and has no good intentions with SN.

Since 2014 on markets served by Brussels Airlines

AF ended flights to Gambia, Sierra Leone, Liberia and suspended flights to Ouagadougou.

KLM ended flights to Sierra Leone and Liberia.

USA and UK are the biggest point to point market for Liberia and Sierra Leone and you don't have non stop flights (it's the same case with Tanzania and Uganda or Zambia with UK ). Can you imagine the same thing with Burundi, Rwanda or DR Congo. I couldn't imagine the reactions in this forum.

We continue but i add non SkyTeam airlines.

Delta Airlines, British Airways ended flights Monrovia due to Ebola. They never resumed flights.

Iberia, KLM and British Airways (using B787-8) ended flights to Angola few times before covid or during the covid for KLM

Iberia and Vueling ended flights to Ghana, few times before the covid, using A320Ceo

TAP Air Portugal ended flights to Togo during the covid with its beautitful A320NEo / A321Neo

Some big airlines have failed and If i m right, Brussels Airlines still serving these markets. The only route they have dropped and never resumed is Bamako. Nairobi, Conakry, Ouagdougou and Luanda are back in the network. SN keeps serving some most competitive markets in Sub-Saharan Africa: Cameroon, Ghana, Kenya, Uganda, Senegal, Ivory Coast, DR Congo, Rwanda.

But of coruse we will focus on the fact that 's a shame that SN doesn't operate A321LR, because others do better and the grass is greener elsewhere


In Liberia, Brussels Airlines operates 5 flights a week. Royal Air Maroc only 3 flights a week. Turkish Airlines doens't serve Monrovia
In Sierra Leone, Brussels Airlines operates 5 flights a week. Royal Air Maroc only 3 flights a week (same thing with Ethiopian, but i don't think that many people use ET to fly from or to USA and Erope). TK operates 4 flights a week.

So in Sierra Leone and Liberia, by the far Brussels Airlines has the biggest seat capacity. The 3 daily flight in summer to New York combined with the 5 weekly service provide better choicies than a 3 weekly flights to NYC via Casablanca.

In Ghana, United Airlines serves Accra you can easly make some nice routing : Washington Brussels (opt by UA in code share with SN or by SN in code share with UA) Accra Washington. Passenger fly on SN flights and probably has bought its ticket on SN website.

I could list many others examples

[lumumba]

Finally. About time the EW-liveries leave the fleet. (it's almost 3 years after the introduction of the new livery and only 2 long haul planes have been repainted...)




Indeed... SN needs a (modern) long haul fleet of at least 15 planes a.s.a.p. to sustain a decent and reliable(!) long haul network.

Forget Africa-hub.
DELTA KLM AF are really big.
Spohr is chaotic with his plans and has no good intentions with SN.

Since 2014 on markets served by Brussels Airlines

AF ended flights to Gambia, Sierra Leone, Liberia and suspended flights to Ouagadougou.

KLM ended flights to Sierra Leone and Liberia.

USA and UK are the biggest point to point market for Liberia and Sierra Leone and you don't have non stop flights (it's the same case with Tanzania and Uganda or Zambia with UK ). Can you imagine the same thing with Burundi, Rwanda or DR Congo. I couldn't imagine the reactions in this forum.

We continue but i add non SkyTeam airlines.

Delta Airlines, British Airways ended flights Monrovia due to Ebola. They never resumed flights.

Iberia, KLM and British Airways (using B787-8) ended flights to Angola few times before covid or during the covid for KLM

Iberia and Vueling ended flights to Ghana, few times before the covid, using A320Ceo

TAP Air Portugal ended flights to Togo during the covid with its beautitful A320NEo / A321Neo

Some big airlines have failed and If i m right, Brussels Airlines still serving these markets. The only route they have dropped and never resumed is Bamako. Nairobi, Conakry, Ouagdougou and Luanda are back in the network. SN keeps serving some most competitive markets in Sub-Saharan Africa: Cameroon, Ghana, Kenya, Uganda, Senegal, Ivory Coast, DR Congo, Rwanda.

But of coruse we will focus on the fact that 's a shame that SN doesn't operate A321LR, because others do better and the grass is greener elsewhere


In Liberia, Brussels Airlines operates 5 flights a week. Royal Air Maroc only 3 flights a week. Turkish Airlines doens't serve Monrovia
In Sierra Leone, Brussels Airlines operates 5 flights a week. Royal Air Maroc only 3 flights a week (same thing with Ethiopian, but i don't think that many people use ET to fly from or to USA and Erope). TK operates 4 flights a week.

So in Sierra Leone and Liberia, by the far Brussels Airlines has the biggest seat capacity. The 3 daily flight in summer to New York combined with the 5 weekly service provide better choicies than a 3 weekly flights to NYC via Casablanca.

In Ghana, United Airlines serves Accra you can easly make some nice routing : Washington Brussels (opt by UA in code share with SN or by SN in code share with UA) Accra Washington. Passenger fly on SN flights and probably has bought its ticket on SN website.

I could list many others examples

KLM also stopped Luanda.
But one flight à week it's not enough !

[JOVAN2]

DELTA KLM AF has over 35 destination in USA and DN.
With sometimes 2 or 3 flights a day.
Also UK is primary market, as Scandinavia and Poland.
AMS and CDG are huge Hubs with many African destinations.

Thanks to genius CS and his sergeants SN stands there in its underwear.
UA would already have done a lot more if BRU and SN were worth it. LH has treated SN as a leprosis airline for over 15 years now, systematically exhausting them as a vulture-shareholder.

You may continue with your gaslighting adoration of LH. Result will be zero for SN.Nada.

[oldblueeyes]

If you want huge Hubs with African destinations, MUC would be ready.
No big deal to paint the A330 in Discover branding, cabin product is the same and you'll have other 30 planes connecting you to the US.

BRU is by no means a center of the airline Industry. SN has for the time being a guaranteed niche.

Ask yourself rather why after the bankrupcy of Swissair and Sabena Swiss and SN developed so differently and try to find a link to the dates LH took over the majority.

[TimTam]

If my memory serves me right, Swiss was loss making and desperately looking for a partner. LH was very intereted and bought it. SN's shareholders were so naive in the end in their selling strategy that a smart LH managed to buy it for peanuts. It allowed them to sideline competition at BRU at a minimal cost which in turn would be offset by flying Belgian passengers to LH's main hubs. For that purpose it has kept SN on a lifeline.
@obe, I am neither bashing nor gloryfying LH. I just see with my blue eyes what is happening whithin the Group and what competition does. I come to my own conclusions, post them here at the risk of being, or even expecting, to be bashed. No problem. I have got a thick hide and believe in the benefits of a free polite discussion. As Jovan2 rightly said, there is nada for SN in the LH Group.

[Lux_avi]

DELTA KLM AF has over 35 destination in USA and DN.
With sometimes 2 or 3 flights a day.
Also UK is primary market, as Scandinavia and Poland.
AMS and CDG are huge Hubs with many African destinations.

Thanks to genius CS and his sergeants SN stands there in its underwear.
UA would already have done a lot more if BRU and SN were worth it. LH has treated SN as a leprosis airline for over 15 years now, systematically exhausting them as a vulture-shareholder.

You may continue with your gaslighting adoration of LH. Result will be zero for SN.Nada.

It's okay to criticize (even if it's always the same song).
But what do you suggest for SN, then?

I mean, what realistic (!) plan do you have for them?