Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[oldblueeyes]

IAG is comunicating clearly their brand positions

Full service- BA, Iberia

Value - Air Europa, Aer Lingus

Low cost - Vueling, Level

Obviously the LH Group would be more or less similar

Full Service - Swiss, LH

Value - Austrian, Brussels, Edelweiss, Discover

Low Cost - Eurowings

[TimTam]

Isn't the acquisition of Air Europa still under investigation by the European competition authorities ?

[oldblueeyes]

Sure, it is.

But nevertheless, as IAG has a minority stake they are presenting their brand startegy at the capital market days. You can check the presentation on the IAG website, it is public information.

[Miqvell]

OO-SBE - the entire Neo fleet is now complete.
Source : Dan Raistrick

[TimTam]

It is not that I don't believe you, obe, but I find it fantastical from IAG to include Air Europa in their list of "member" airlines when they own 20 % only of Air Europa and unethical to do so when the full acquisition is still under investigation.
I hope, for competition reasons that this acquisition will not be allowed to go through (same, imho, for LH/AZ).

[TimTam]

OO-SBE - the entire Neo fleet is now complete.
Source : Dan Raistrick

???? Please, elaborate. Thank you.

[lucas]

OO-SBE - the entire Neo fleet is now complete.
Source : Dan Raistrick

???? Please, elaborate. Thank you.

Brussels Airlines ordered 5 NEO's for now. This means that OO-SBE, the fifth neo, now in production, is the last one for now. When delivered later this year, the ordered neo fleet will be complete.

[TimTam]

Thank you ! But sad news. Five neo's (for now) and fleet completed.

[oldblueeyes]

Who says this?
It is a first allocation from group deliveries.
There is more to come with the phase out of the 319.

[TimTam]

Who says this?
It is a first allocation from group deliveries.
There is more to come with the phase out of the 319.

Tell us when approximately please. 2030 ? In the meantime the airline does not make the profits it could make if it had less fuel consuming aircraft.

[Miqvell]

Who says this?
It is a first allocation from group deliveries.
There is more to come with the phase out of the 319.

Tell us when approximately please. 2030 ? In the meantime the airline does not make the profits it could make if it had less fuel consuming aircraft.

2030 lmao. Someone already said that the next allocation will be made in May, and that SN should/could be included.

[oldblueeyes]

Who says this?
It is a first allocation from group deliveries.
There is more to come with the phase out of the 319.

Tell us when approximately please. 2030 ? In the meantime the airline does not make the profits it could make if it had less fuel consuming aircraft.

Do you have in real life any job with Profit and Loss responsibility?
The full picture is not " less fuel consumtion = profits".

You always have to offset ownership cost + maintenace+ fuel cost + airport taxes depending on noise and fuel burn when comparing two aircraft.
And if you want to make it more complicated you look to the average sector length as fuel savings increase over distance.
And to make it more complicated, as the 319 are leased, you can look towards the market leased rated to prolongue an aircraft type going out of the market, total cost per trip, number of pax on the route etc.
Sometimes the sweet spot may be tactical and this would mean that some A319 leases may be even prolongued, if no major check would apply and make everything non economical.

As an educated judgement, you can use available public data and company behaviour to make your own judgements:
- typical second hand leases as the A319 are go over 10-12 years time -> you can look when these aircraft joined the fleet and have an educated guess when contracts are due
- unless intensively used on very short distances and 8-9 sectors pr day, these aircraft could be meaningfully used until they are 30y old, the typical economical usage at the LH group (LH itself is flying some 27 y old A319 until the end of their economical cycle)
- there is a clear strategic decision taken to shift the fleet towards an all A320 size; regardless if NEO's or CEO's
- LH group tends to allocate brand new aircraft around 1,5-2 years before delivery, typically announced in May , few days before the annual general meeting

Furthemore, there are several things influencing decisions which can't be foreseen from outside:

- if subject to choose, would the management by limited resources prefer to grow either the long haul or the short haul operations ( strech plans see up to 15 A333 and this would also need from one side financing, but also feeders)
- opening of the 2nd hand market around 2026/27
- allocation of the B737 MAX fleet into one brand - also consequently partial reallocation of available A320 to other brands
- or activation of the 40 A320 options ordered the same day with the B737 in case LH won't take the B737
- tactical decisions - eg if A319 within the group would become available for short term fleet expansion, why not? With the shirking of CityLine there are still some ex OS A319 with a quite feasable rest lifetime - they may all become available if the scope clause for Cityline would be reactivated, and it looks like this is the end of that brand

So let's wait and see, as things as not that straight forward as they look like.

[TimTam]

Thank you for having taken the time to write such a long explication (to a layman). And thank you to aviation24 and this forum for making this possible.

[convair]

Who says this?
It is a first allocation from group deliveries.
There is more to come with the phase out of the 319.

Tell us when approximately please. 2030 ? In the meantime the airline does not make the profits it could make if it had less fuel consuming aircraft.

Do you have in real life any job with Profit and Loss responsibility?
The full picture is not " less fuel consumtion = profits".

You always have to offset ownership cost + maintenace+ fuel cost + airport taxes depending on noise and fuel burn when comparing two aircraft.
And if you want to make it more complicated you look to the average sector length as fuel savings increase over distance.
And to make it more complicated, as the 319 are leased, you can look towards the market leased rated to prolongue an aircraft type going out of the market, total cost per trip, number of pax on the route etc.
Sometimes the sweet spot may be tactical and this would mean that some A319 leases may be even prolongued, if no major check would apply and make everything non economical.

As an educated judgement, you can use available public data and company behaviour to make your own judgements:
- typical second hand leases as the A319 are go over 10-12 years time -> you can look when these aircraft joined the fleet and have an educated guess when contracts are due
- unless intensively used on very short distances and 8-9 sectors pr day, these aircraft could be meaningfully used until they are 30y old, the typical economical usage at the LH group (LH itself is flying some 27 y old A319 until the end of their economical cycle)
- there is a clear strategic decision taken to shift the fleet towards an all A320 size; regardless if NEO's or CEO's
- LH group tends to allocate brand new aircraft around 1,5-2 years before delivery, typically announced in May , few days before the annual general meeting

Furthemore, there are several things influencing decisions which can't be foreseen from outside:

- if subject to choose, would the management by limited resources prefer to grow either the long haul or the short haul operations ( strech plans see up to 15 A333 and this would also need from one side financing, but also feeders)
- opening of the 2nd hand market around 2026/27
- allocation of the B737 MAX fleet into one brand - also consequently partial reallocation of available A320 to other brands
- or activation of the 40 A320 options ordered the same day with the B737 in case LH won't take the B737
- tactical decisions - eg if A319 within the group would become available for short term fleet expansion, why not? With the shirking of CityLine there are still some ex OS A319 with a quite feasable rest lifetime - they may all become available if the scope clause for Cityline would be reactivated, and it looks like this is the end of that brand

So let's wait and see, as things as not that straight forward as they look like.

Thank you for putting things into perspective and showing things are not as simple as people often believe. Managing an airline is as complicated as managing a grocery.

[oldblueeyes]

It is fully understandable that people are curious .
Just that this business is a little bit more complicated than a marketing speech.
Delta is a profitability king by deliberately choosing to run a mix of new and older aircraft ( the 717 are a classic example of getting a right fit subfleet at low cost becuase nobody wanted that model).
United was choosing few years ago to to buy mid life A319 instead of new B737 MAX in order to reduce investment and the return per spent dollar doubled.

Ultimatevly the goal of each airline is to earn money, something that is not a selfunderstanding thing in this industry. And on top not all competitors are playing under similar conditions - there are state supported airlines , no matter how shitty their economics are or airlines playing with the proud of regional politics in remote regions cashing in taxpayers money to support regional pride - in your country rather ethnical pride.

[nathan_06]

More information about OO-SFP/D-AIKG?
On 28 Apr Dusseldorf - Brussel canceled
Next day 29 Apr Dusseldorf - Dusseldorf

[nordikcam]

More information about OO-SFP/D-AIKG?
On 28 Apr Dusseldorf - Brussel canceled
Next day 29 Apr Dusseldorf - Dusseldorf

And OO-SFC who has certainly disappeared for two months ...

[nathan_06]

More information about OO-SFP/D-AIKG?
On 28 Apr Dusseldorf - Brussel canceled
Next day 29 Apr Dusseldorf - Dusseldorf

And OO-SFC who has certainly disappeared for two months ...

Maintenace
Maybe also going to the paint shop?

[Delta Sierra]

OO-SFC still in MAN for C-check till the 8th of May.
OO-SFD will leave today to SIN for C-check probably till the end of May.
OO-SFB will normally go to the paintshop at the end of May

[DannyVDB]

Hi,

Does this mean that they will only have 7 planes for the next 6 days?

Or will OO-SFP arrive very soon?

Cheers,
Danny