Bid on Brussels International Airport

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 15 Jun 2004, 19:18

Thanks to the Belgian government for all this... I don't think I need to say names, you probably all know who I mean...

Instead of helping the 3rd world, they should better begin to manage their own country...

I hope it won't become true, but I'm afraid...

greettzzz

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 15 Jun 2004, 19:21

On the end everything will be french, bbbrrrrrrrr what a awful thought!

Not at all. 99,99% of the travellers only care about convenience, price and quality.

You unfortunately belong to the 0,01%.

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 15 Jun 2004, 20:39

Indeed very bad news.

AMS doesn't make a secret about it...
They allready said several times that they are intrested in BRU because BRU is their backyard and could become a big problem in the future (OneWorld).

So their "10 year" strategy...
> buy BRU
> use BRU for second hand flights
> transfer all international flights to AMS
> and finally lett BRU become a regional airport

I really hope their are some serious offers for BRU from other airports that can really use BRU as an international airport. (even a gateway to Africa).

Like allways, the future will bring us the answers...

thumbs up for BRU, the year 2004/2005 are the "now or never" years...
these years will decide if BRU will become a player or not.

greetings,
ATC

airDD · Post by **airDD** » 15 Jun 2004, 21:05

Regretfully BRU is already a regional, second tier airport.

It is just matter of time before DHL flees BRU.

I hope whoever ends up buying BRU, will develop it as a LCC airport.

As long as BIAC is an investor in SNBA, BRU’s growth will be limited.

airDD

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 15 Jun 2004, 21:54

ATC wrote: So their "10 year" strategy...
> buy BRU
> use BRU for second hand flights
> transfer all international flights to AMS
> and finally lett BRU become a regional airport

This is ridiculous

I mean AMS won't utilize BRU, if they buy it they have a plan to make something of BRU. Not that all 'second hand flights' (:?:) will go to BRU. AMS will use BRU, by buying it, as weapon against other 'agressive' elements. And I don't think that all the flights of BRU will go to AMS. 1) AMS has not enough room for that. They may expand, but I don't think that they are waiting at flights from BRU 2) If KLM gets her wish, SIA Cargo will come to BRU and will use it as hub/connection point.

sn26567 wrote:...and leave the crap to BRU

Why the crap to BRU? Since BRU will become a part of AMS I don't think they will dump rubbish in their own backyard.

I think Schiphol will share flights. Half to AMS half to BRU
1) So they are able to expand and to create from AMS/BRU a big hub, a mainport of Europe
2) To prevent that other airlines will use BRU so that they don't have competition in their nearest environment.

It won't be the end for BRU. I think it will start the beginning of a big Mainport of Europe. Don't think negative. If the shares must go away, give them to AMS. If you will use them for the OneWorld story, I think that BRU will become an airport where all of you are thinking about now: A small regional airport for near destinations in Europe, due to OneWorld has already all over the world good connections. The same for Star alliance (FRA). AMS is no strong hub of an alliance, soon a hub of Skyteam, but not too strong (still under influence of CDG), and if CDG want to pick all those flights to Paris, then we are lost.

Jumbolino · Post by **Jumbolino** » 15 Jun 2004, 23:02

Yeah, airport authorities can make it very hard to airlines to operate flights from, one example is the BIG airport LEJ (Leipzig Halle) but unforunatly without attractive routes at suitable price and suitable time and therefore it's an dead airport without any pax (but with an train - rapid train = ICE terminal ....) - and nobody comes ....

Jumbolino · Post by **Jumbolino** » 15 Jun 2004, 23:19

good news guys

FRAPORT is interested as well and made a bid and they definitly CANNOT grow anymore at their homebase

http://de.biz.yahoo.com/040615/336/42qse.html

Post by **luchtzak** » 15 Jun 2004, 23:25

Jumbolino wrote:good news guys

FRAPORT is interested as well and made a bid and they definitly CANNOT grow anymore at their homebase
http://de.biz.yahoo.com/040615/336/42qse.html

yes, as mentioned here:

https://www.aviation24.be/modules.php?name ... 2996#42996 (hence same topic but first page

)

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 16 Jun 2004, 00:05

Flying_Dutchman wrote:I think Schiphol will share flights. Half to AMS half to BRU
1) So they are able to expand and to create from AMS/BRU a big hub, a mainport of Europe

Just one thing: are you talking about Schiphol or KLM? You seem to be talking about KLM...
Why the hell would KLM fly half their flights to BRU? They allready have CDG now!
Airlines decide where they fly to, not Airports!

Flying_Dutchman wrote:2) To prevent that other airlines will use BRU so that they don't have competition in their nearest environment.

Indeed, Schiphol litteraly said the wanted BRU to prevent agressive competition, but guess what: some agressive competition is just what BRU needs, steel passengers & flights away from Schiphol, CDG, FRA etc... Why would an airport refuse an airline to use their facilities? The more, the better! Again, you're mistaking Schiphol for KLM!

Swissair allso said they wanted to maximise Sabena's potential, and look where that brought us...

I'll take Copenhagen anyday over CDG, FRA or Schiphol, that's not a competitor, but could be a good alliance partner.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 16 Jun 2004, 07:25

"Schiphol, which is controlled by the Dutch government, initially wanted to wait for its initial public offering of shares before embarking on acquisitions but felt it had to take action now because rivals such as ADP, operator of Paris CDG, or Frankfurt airport operator Fraport could take over Zaventem. Additionally, financial investors such as Britain's 3i and Australia's Macquarie reportedly have shown interest.

Schiphol operates four airports in the Netherlands, Terminal 4 at New York JFK and Brisbane Airport"

Press release BIAC:

Indicative bids
At this stage of the process to sell part of the shares of BIAC, no statements will be made on its progress. Neither BIAC nor its shareholders shall release any information on the indicative bids that were submitted to ING, the consultant in charge of co-ordinating the process.

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 16 Jun 2004, 08:37

FRAPORT is interested as well and made a bid and they definitly CANNOT grow anymore at their homebase

The biggest airline at FRA, Lufthansa, already announced that, if they can't expand in FRA, that the additional traffic will go to MUC. This discussion is currently going on, because the new runway is delayed as far as I remember...

Frederic

Post by **sn26567** » 16 Jun 2004, 09:23

If I really had to chose between AMS and FRA as the future owner of BIAC, I would prefer FRA, because it is further away and more difficult to reach by ground transportation, thus there is a limited risk of taking away traffic from BRU.

But let's face it: any airport that is a hub for an alliance (AMS and CDG for SkyTeam, FRA and CPH for Star) would be a bad choice for that very reason: it would take away transit traffic from BRU.

Only a OneWorld airport would be acceptable as most SN BA's codeshares are with OneWorld companies. So why not BAA?

As balckhawk mentioned, other companies are interested, and not only airports. there is a French building company, an Australian holding, etc. They would all be preferable to a competing airport from a neighbour country.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 16 Jun 2004, 09:49

What do they mean with "Brussels can act as a Bypass Airport" (De vier grote concurrenten leveren daarmee voor het eerst gezamenlijk ‘slag’ om een kluif, die als ‘bypass luchthaven’ dienst kan gaan doen in het steeds vollere Europese luchtruim.)

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=4519

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 16 Jun 2004, 11:14

blackhawk wrote:What do they mean with "Brussels can act as a Bypass Airport" (De vier grote concurrenten leveren daarmee voor het eerst gezamenlijk ‘slag’ om een kluif, die als ‘bypass luchthaven’ dienst kan gaan doen in het steeds vollere Europese luchtruim.)

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=4519

I think it means that BR would become an airport where for example allot of short haul flights arrive, passengers are put onto a TGV and railed to CDG and are put on the long-haul flights over there ... so no more long-haul flights to BRU.

Pleas tell me if I'm wrong, cause I'm not 100% shure.

Greetz,

Andries

Post by **sn26567** » 16 Jun 2004, 12:49

Just for information, here are the current shareholders of BIAC in %:

State: 63.56
P&V nsurance: 4.91
DEE: 4.69
GBL: 4.66
Ackermans & Van Haaren: 4.66
KBC Bank: 4.66
Dexia: 4.45
FB Insurance (Fortis): 4.43
Axa Belgium: 1.90
KBC Insurance: 1.18
Petercam: 0.67
BIAC staff: 0.23

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 16 Jun 2004, 14:01

Buzz wrote:
Flying_Dutchman wrote:I think Schiphol will share flights. Half to AMS half to BRU
1) So they are able to expand and to create from AMS/BRU a big hub, a mainport of Europe
Just one thing: are you talking about Schiphol or KLM? You seem to be talking about KLM...
Why the hell would KLM fly half their flights to BRU? They allready have CDG now!
Airlines decide where they fly to, not Airports!

My whole story is about Schiphol.
AMS could share her capacity to BRU (if AMS has bought BRU), so there are more flights, thus a chance to grow for both airports, special for BRU. Airlines decide where they want to fly, but I think that an airport also decides when an airline may come flying to them.

Buzz wrote:
Flying_Dutchman wrote:2) To prevent that other airlines will use BRU so that they don't have competition in their nearest environment.
Indeed, Schiphol litteraly said the wanted BRU to prevent agressive competition, but guess what: some agressive competition is just what BRU needs, steel passengers & flights away from Schiphol, CDG, FRA etc... Why would an airport refuse an airline to use their facilities? The more, the better! Again, you're mistaking Schiphol for KLM!

No, I'm still talking about Schiphol.
Schiphol's point is to atract more airlines. If airlines choose for BRU, that's sad for AMS, so AMS tries to buy BRU. Indeed, competition is good for BRU, but I was talking about AMS. Competiotion just in front of their nose, isn't what they want. By buying BRU, they just want to prevent those competitors, and is able to increase their capacity over two airports.

I hope I'm clear

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 16 Jun 2004, 14:23

has a certain ring to the name......................

Last time I flew KLM to Joburg from BRU via AMS, we flew for 22 minutes and taxied from the new runway at AMS for 37mins, so if they can build a new runway miles from the actual airport site, why not a new satelite terminal just "down the road" .....

sorry but couldn't resist, at the end of the day it''s business FRAPORT own stakes in various airports, so do the swiss so why not the Dutch.

Rgds
Tony

A318 · Post by **A318** » 16 Jun 2004, 15:28

ATC wrote:Indeed very bad news.

AMS doesn't make a secret about it...
They allready said several times that they are intrested in BRU because BRU is their backyard and could become a big problem in the future (OneWorld).

So their "10 year" strategy...
> buy BRU
> use BRU for second hand flights
> transfer all international flights to AMS
> and finally lett BRU become a regional airport

greetings,
ATC

You forget some things in your 10 year strategy:
So their "10 year" strategy...
> buy BRU
> use BRU for second hand flights
> use AMS for feeding flights
> Repaint KL planes into AF colours
> transfer all international flights to CDG
> and finally lett BRU become a regional airport and AMS a feeder hub for AF.

Good news is that Singapore Airlines anounced that they will use BRU instead of AMS after the KL block for the cargo arrival from Singapore Airlines.This should mean a lot of traffic and jobs will come to BRU.

Greetz,

Erwin

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 16 Jun 2004, 15:45

Eurocontrol wrote:...so if they can build a new runway miles from the actual airport site, why not a new satelite terminal just "down the road" .....

They're planning to do that. Look at these computer draws:

http://www.vslcatena.nl/~jules/schiphol.jpg

http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/vie ... 98V10RE14U

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 16 Jun 2004, 15:51

> transfer all international flights to CDG

You don't have to be old and wise to know that this is crap...

The fact that KLM is opening ATL, get's all flights to Manila etc etc is also part of the 'destruction process' I guess?

The planns currently on the table reveal that both AF and KL are going to concentrate on their profitable hubs. That's for example why KLM is withdrawing from the loss-making AMS-CCS route (they have the MD11 available now for money making destinations, with Dar Es Salaam being one of them I believe).

And with CDG being very congested, do you think that there is place over there for the current longhaul flights ex-AMS?

> Repaint KL planes into AF colours

Don't know for sure, but I highly doubt whether this is every going to happen. And then again: who cares whether KLM or whatever else is written on the plane?

> and finally lett BRU become a regional airport and AMS a feeder hub for AF.

That about BRU is already a fact, that about AMS not at all. Don't mix facts with your imagination.

The outcome for BRU: it can't get much worse than it is now. So does it really matter who is going to take them over? I would like to know what the planns of AMS airport would be with BRU, once the TGV will be able to connect both cities in 2h.

Anyway, I'm a bit minded towards a take over by another airport...

Aviation24.be

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