2022 Military escalation Russia - Ukraine - USA - NATO - Europe

[KriVa]

Why would it be a stealth aircraft? Both ADSBExhange and FR24 use ADS-B data as their source, no radars are used. As such, as soon as an aircraft stops transmitting said data, it will be invisible to either of those services. It will however not be invisible to radars if in range, be they land-based or airborne (AWACS).
I’m not saying stealth aircraft like the F-35 can’t be involved, they probably are, but the fact that they are not visible on tracking websites is not in any way proof of this.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Why would it be a stealth aircraft? Both ADSBExhange and FR24 use ADS-B data as their source, no radars are used. As such, as soon as an aircraft stops transmitting said data, it will be invisible to either of those services. It will however not be invisible to radars if in range, be they land-based or airborne (AWACS).
I’m not saying stealth aircraft like the F-35 can’t be involved, they probably are, but the fact that they are not visible on tracking websites is not in any way proof of this.

Thanks KriVa. Indeed the signals are willingly transmitted hence my remark.
Although previously you could "see" the receiving aircraft in the vicinity of the tanker, now there are none and it is hard to believe that tankers are drilling holes in the sky for hours without being "at work".

My question is driven by a safety concern. Those aircraft being refueled do not squawk so how can you provide the necessary safety to civilian traffic when several fast jets are detectable, at best, by a primary radar?
Genuine question that you are probably in a position to shed some light on with your experience.

Note that the RAF tanker is a KC-2 Voyager, Airbus MRTT, equipped only with hose system refueling. They don't have booms so they are sent up there for small fast jets, not large ones like a Rivet Joint, Joint STAR and similar.

Thanks,

H.A.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Four (4) An-26 of the Ukraine State Emergency Service, flew out and landed at EPBY Bydgoszcz earlier this afternoon.

Reg 54482 - 54483 - 42521 - 42524. The latter is bort 04 blue illustrated below (thanks to Aviationpress.co.uk).

H.A.

[luchtzak]

Why would it be a stealth aircraft? Both ADSBExhange and FR24 use ADS-B data as their source, no radars are used. As such, as soon as an aircraft stops transmitting said data, it will be invisible to either of those services. It will however not be invisible to radars if in range, be they land-based or airborne (AWACS).
I’m not saying stealth aircraft like the F-35 can’t be involved, they probably are, but the fact that they are not visible on tracking websites is not in any way proof of this.

Thanks KriVa. Indeed the signals are willingly transmitted hence my remark.
Although previously you could "see" the receiving aircraft in the vicinity of the tanker, now there are none and it is hard to believe that tankers are drilling holes in the sky for hours without being "at work".


Tanker Tanker Tanker.png


My question is driven by a safety concern. Those aircraft being refueled do not squawk so how can you provide the necessary safety to civilian traffic when several fast jets are detectable, at best, by a primary radar?
Genuine question that you are probably in a position to shed some light on with your experience.

Note that the RAF tanker is a KC-2 Voyager, Airbus MRTT, equipped only with hose system refueling. They don't have booms so they are sent up there for small fast jets, not large ones like a Rivet Joint, Joint STAR and similar.

Thanks,

H.A.

[Acid-drop]

Rq-4b drones can be monitored on fr24 also
Surprising.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Lots of tankers still on duty close to the western border of Ukraine.
Enough to quench the thirst of many fast jets over there.

NCHO131 (Nacho = KC-10) is returning to Mildenhall, currently over what used to be the no-go limit at the East German border before NATO decided to provide peace to another 1 million km² further East.

A NATO E-3, LX-N90452, tagged as NAT002, currently over SE Poland and heading for the UA border. replacing NAT001, LX-90454, heading back home at Geilenkirchen.

H.A.

[Homo Aeroportus]

The more you look the more tankers you see.

There is a Royal Netherlands AF MRTT south of Bydgoszcz, with an RAF 3000 ft below, MRTT as well.

Another RAF MRTT took off from Akrotiri and is now on station near Constanza.

A USAF F-16 departed Aviano and had not strangled its parrot before 26000ft.

Same for a HuAF Gripen, probably from Kecskemet, visible for a while before going silent.

NOTAMs have been published to close the airspace 200nm from the UA border. better stay clear of all these fast jets around there.

H.A.

[Acid-drop]

Why would you publish the position of an f35 on fr24 ?
I find it so weird

[Homo Aeroportus]

Why would you publish the position of an f35 on fr24 ?
I find it so weird

Public relations?

"Hello, I'm here. And I'm the only one squawking in our flight"

I've seen this 13-5067 earlier this morning, supposedly from Bitburg according to FR24 but more probably from Spangdahlem.
Tail flash is "WA" i.e. Fairchild AFB near Spokane, WA but this one is assigned to the 6th Weapons School at Nellis.

That it remains visible is probably a way to show "we're serious about this". Other nearby assets are available to provide protection to the tankers, AWACS and Intel gathering platforms.

Things could go worse before getting better.

H.A.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Twelve (12) F-35A from the 34th FS were already operating from Spangdahlem, Germany where they had arrived on 16FEB from Hill AFB, Utah.
Some sources report that 6 of them deployed further East yesterday 27FEB, two to each of the following bases :
- Ämari, Estonia (where the 4 Belgian F-16 are already in their Baltic Air Policing mission)
- Siaulai, Lithuania
- Fetesti, Romania (near the main base at Constanza.

The 2 fighters from Hill (tail flash HL) are shown taking off from Ämari yesterday.
https://www.dvidshub.net/video/832564/u ... se-estonia

The following video shows three (3) F-35A landing at Ämari also on 27FEB, these are based at RAF Lakenheath. https://www.dvidshub.net/video/832569/r ... nd-estonia
So there may be 5 in total based there.

Furthermore two (2) F-35A from Royal Netherlands Air Force have been deployed eastwards on 24FEB ahead of their mission for the NATO Southern Air Policing that was planned for March/April. It is not clear whether they went to Graf Ignatievo Air Base in Bulgaria or Mihail Kogălniceanu Air Base (Constanza) in Romania.


I've never been a fan of the "one-size-fits" all F-35A/B/C but its stealth characteristics may be valuable up there.

H.A.

[KriVa]

Thanks KriVa. Indeed the signals are willingly transmitted hence my remark.
Although previously you could "see" the receiving aircraft in the vicinity of the tanker, now there are none and it is hard to believe that tankers are drilling holes in the sky for hours without being "at work".

I wanted to come back to this, since I haven't had the time to do so these last few days. I have to preface my comments by saying this: I have no actual operational experience with this kind of conflict (thankfully), and I will not be able to expand too much on the processes involved.
However, from what I do know, the tankes may very well be burning fuel for hours without having any aircraft actually using their refuelling capabilities. While expensive, it takes quite a long time for the tankers to transit from their bases to the area of operations. If you know a conflict can go hot at any time, it's a lot more efficient to have a few tankers ready than it would be to only get them airborne once the conflict actually turns hot. Fighters can be on scene a lot faster than tankers, but if they're transitting at high speed, they may require fuel just as soon as they enter the area.
That being said, I doubt that is what is going on here. Judging by the activities of the last few days before your post, when fighters were visible in the vicinity of the tankers, it would seem strange for fighter activity to stop just as the tensions and action increased.
As such, I think it's a pretty safe guess to say that the fighters, and other military traffic, are no longer providing ADS-B info. This however does not mean they are completely invisible to civilian radars. There still could be a Mode A and Mode C (squawk and altitude info) reply.
Which brings me on to this part of your post:

My question is driven by a safety concern. Those aircraft being refueled do not squawk so how can you provide the necessary safety to civilian traffic when several fast jets are detectable, at best, by a primary radar?
Genuine question that you are probably in a position to shed some light on with your experience.
Note that the RAF tanker is a KC-2 Voyager, Airbus MRTT, equipped only with hose system refueling. They don't have booms so they are sent up there for small fast jets, not large ones like a Rivet Joint, Joint STAR and similar.

Again, I'll reiterate that I am thankful to have no operational experience with the processes involved. Ast to the actual ways of working, coordinations,... I'm not sure what kind of info I can and, especially, can not divulge, so I'm afraid I won't be able co comment on that. Rest assured procedures are in place to keep civilian traffic safe. Also keep in mind that military sensors (like an AWACS aircraft, ground based radars, radars on board fisher aircraft,...) are a lot more capable than their civilian counterparts.
While this link mostly relates to USA-based procedures, it's a good entry to the rabbit hole:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARSA_(aviation)
Another useful links for all things ATC (and maintained by Eurocontrol): https://skybrary.aero

[Homo Aeroportus]

Thanks KriVa, I appreciate your detailed interesting answer. Reminds me of Luchtzak.be when this type of exchange was the standard.

You are perfectly right about the tankers mission profiles. Years ago I was in contact with some crew of the 100ARW at Mildenhall and they said it can be anything from being scrambled out to to give a life extension to a fighter in the middle of the Atlantic having a leak (the plane I mean, not the pilot) and returning home after delivering 4 tons, or an endless day requiring buddy refueling by another KC-135 as they had to share their return fuel with an unexpected customer or as you said being sent out in the blue loitering for hours "just in case".
I notice that at least 3 KC-135 of the 100ARW have been forward deployed to Ramstein. That must save them close to 2 hours for not having to return to Mildenhall.

In the current case with 4-5 tankers out 24/7 (USAF, RAF from home and Akrotiri but also some MRTTs from RNLAF and France), and with at least one Nacho KC-10 that must be for real, not "just in case". I was surprised to read about those 12 F-35As operating there + those not publicly mentioned I guess. A number of them must be out there probably adding some intel gathering capacity and requiring frequent top ups.

I trust you for the clarification on the Civ-Mil ATC coordination. As you said the big eyes (and ears) up there know better than anyone who is around, friend of foe.

Also several NOTAMs have been issued to keep civilian traffic out of harms way.
I like this one :
D0927/22 NOTAMNQ) EPWW/QRTCA/IV/BO /W /455/660/5252N01908E250
A) EPWW B) 2203020600 C) 2205020600
E) RESTRICTED AREAS - FLIGHTS OF MIL ACFT, AIRSPACE CLASS C. UNIT PROVIDING ATC SERVICES: ACC OAT EPWW.
AREA EPR137 LATERAL LIMITS: xxx…. VERTICAL LIMITS: FL455-FL660
AREA EPR138 LATERAL LIMITS: xxx…. VERTICAL LIMITS: FL455-FL660
AREA EPR139 LATERAL LIMITS: xxx…. VERTICAL LIMITS: FL455-FL660.

H.A.

[Bracebrace]

I can only talk about the IS days in Iraq.I guess they use local military controllers who will control them and keep them clear of commercial traffic, if really necessary they will be controlled by AWACS. In friendly area's they might check in with local controllers "transferring -in/-out" and the controller will only acknowledge with "proceed tactical" if he's with an AWACS. I recently heard the "Kaliningrad" spies checking in with Polish radar, so they are not that "invisible".

Anyway, if you hear a cool callsign and wondering what company invented it, he's military . (for fighters, a guy on oxygen masks is a good indication lol)

Again, only my personal experience...

PS: fighter pilot podcast is a fun podcast that deals with the American navy side of aviation. They have an episode on the E-3 and intercept communications. Somewhere in those podcasts they touch on how they control their navy fighters in non-US territory.

[sn26567]

Roscosmos to halt rocket engine deliveries to the US in response to anti-Russia sanctions.

Russia’s State Space Corporation Roscosmos will halt the deliveries of rocket engines to the United States in response to anti-Russia sanctions, Roscosmos Chief Dmitry Rogozin said in an interview with the Rossiya-24 TV Channel on Thursday.

"Today we have made a decision to halt the deliveries of rocket engines produced by NPO Energomash to the United States. Let me remind you that these deliveries had been quite intensive somewhere since the mid-1990s," Rogozin said.

The ban applies to RD-180 engines that are used on US Atlas V launch vehicles as the main propulsion systems and RD-181 thrusters operated as the first stage of Antares rockets, the Roscosmos chief specified.

"As of today, there were plans to deliver an additional 12 RD-181 engines in 2022-2024 and talks were also held with the United States on the delivery of RD-181M engines with improved operational characteristics but we believe that in this situation we can no longer supply the United States with our best engines," the Roscosmos head said.

Not sure the US will be impressed...

[Acid-drop]

Some fat boys here
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae58a7

[sn26567]

[sn26567]

[sn26567]

The largest part of Belgian troops deployed in Romania left Melsbroek today on an Enter Air Boeing 737-800 (but the transponder may have been disabled). I would have thought that they would use an A330MRTT owned in part by the Belgian Air Force!

[sn26567]

The largest part of Belgian troops deployed in Romania left Melsbroek today on an Enter Air Boeing 737-800 (but the transponder may have been disabled). I would have thought that they would use an A330MRTT owned in part by the Belgian Air Force!

Flight E4 567 appeared on FR24. The aircraft was B738 SP-ENO.

[Lux_avi]

The largest part of Belgian troops deployed in Romania left Melsbroek today on an Enter Air Boeing 737-800 (but the transponder may have been disabled). I would have thought that they would use an A330MRTT owned in part by the Belgian Air Force!

Why? Haven’t you noticed the BAF has used/is using numerous civilian planes? This is nothing surprising, nor anything new.