Brussels Airport (BRU): Star Alliance, Oneworld and Skyteam under one roof?

[Atlantis]

It is correct that BRU is attracting a lot more pax from The Netherlands then from France. This also bcs of the many campaigns in The Netherlands. It would be also good if a lot of Business would be attracted and not only leisure

Business passengers are mainly looking for a schedule which suits their plans, AMS has a lot more possibilities than BRU.
The recreational Bizz flyer is looking for the cheapest option and that is often AMS as there is a lot more competition.

Nevertheless nothing wrong to attract them. BRU offers also flights which AMS doesn't have e.g. in Africa

It should be as a matter of fact much more to "steal away" pax from neighbour countries or cities.

[Poiu]

It is correct that BRU is attracting a lot more pax from The Netherlands then from France. This also bcs of the many campaigns in The Netherlands. It would be also good if a lot of Business would be attracted and not only leisure

Business passengers are mainly looking for a schedule which suits their plans, AMS has a lot more possibilities than BRU.
The recreational Bizz flyer is looking for the cheapest option and that is often AMS as there is a lot more competition.

Nevertheless nothing wrong to attract them. BRU offers also flights which AMS doesn't have e.g. in Africa

It should be as a matter of fact much more to "steal away" pax from neighbour countries or cities.

Absolutely nothing wrong trying to attract them, I was merely explaining why it’s difficult to attract them.

[Conti764]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.

About Blue Sky we don't speak bcs BRU is between those two major hubs and those home carriers, KLM/AF, are going to replace planes by trains.

I guess you mean SkyTeam. They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

It's true that AF and KL will more and more use train connections, but BRU should try to attract travellers by train as well. This is done for the Netherlands, but not for France.

DL is even upgrading tot 764.

[Matt]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.

About Blue Sky we don't speak bcs BRU is between those two major hubs and those home carriers, KLM/AF, are going to replace planes by trains.

I guess you mean SkyTeam. They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

It's true that AF and KL will more and more use train connections, but BRU should try to attract travellers by train as well. This is done for the Netherlands, but not for France.

DL is even upgrading tot 764.

On which route? I tought BRU-JFK was being upgraded to a a330-200, so the BRU-ATL route?

[Conti764]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.


I guess you mean SkyTeam. They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

It's true that AF and KL will more and more use train connections, but BRU should try to attract travellers by train as well. This is done for the Netherlands, but not for France.

DL is even upgrading tot 764.

On which route? I tought BRU-JFK was being upgraded to a a330-200, so the BRU-ATL route?

Both.

JFK-BRU starting 30/1/20
ATL-BRU starting 22/2/20

[Atlantis]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.

They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

Delta is the only one of Skyteam who is upgrading from time to time. It's a pity that we will not see their A330 at BRU, but who knows. But more than two destinations we will not see of them, I'm afraid

The other Chinese carriers in Skyteam has a too strong bound with KLM, so better is to rely on Hainan and to attract some other ones.

Maybe too far future and maybe not directly in the scope but Aero Mexico could be also a possibility. The destination is not unknown by Belgians. Two or three flights a week could be with the B787-8 or B787-9. They offer already flights to Mad, CDG, LHR and AMS. But they are updrading the frequenties ro MAD and CDG bcs of a huge European demand. Why not from Belgium as there is a Mexican and surroundings community too in Belgium.

[lumumba]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.

They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

Delta is the only one of Skyteam who is upgrading from time to time. It's a pity that we will not see their A330 at BRU, but who knows. But more than two destinations we will not see of them, I'm afraid

The other Chinese carriers in Skyteam has a too strong bound with KLM, so better is to rely on Hainan and to attract some other ones.

Maybe too far future and maybe not directly in the scope but Aero Mexico could be also a possibility. The destination is not unknown by Belgians. Two or three flights a week could be with the B787-8 or B787-9. They offer already flights to Mad, CDG, LHR and AMS. But they are updrading the frequenties ro MAD and CDG bcs of a huge European demand. Why not from Belgium as there is a Mexican and surroundings community too in Belgium.

But Conti764 just said they gone upgrade to A330?!
So who is right!

[Atlantis]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.

They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

Delta is the only one of Skyteam who is upgrading from time to time. It's a pity that we will not see their A330 at BRU, but who knows. But more than two destinations we will not see of them, I'm afraid

The other Chinese carriers in Skyteam has a too strong bound with KLM, so better is to rely on Hainan and to attract some other ones.

Maybe too far future and maybe not directly in the scope but Aero Mexico could be also a possibility. The destination is not unknown by Belgians. Two or three flights a week could be with the B787-8 or B787-9. They offer already flights to Mad, CDG, LHR and AMS. But they are updrading the frequenties ro MAD and CDG bcs of a huge European demand. Why not from Belgium as there is a Mexican and surroundings community too in Belgium.

But Conti764 just said they gone upgrade to A330?!
So who is right!

Hi Lumumba,

Delta had the intention to fly with the A330 to BRU but they changed their minds. They will fly instead with the new refurbished cabin and new business class in the B764 to BRU as from the beginning of next year

[rwandan-flyer]

Nevertheless nothing wrong to attract them. BRU offers also flights which AMS doesn't have e.g. in Africa

It should be as a matter of fact much more to "steal away" pax from neighbour countries or cities.

In deed BRU can be an alternative to CDG and AMS. AMS has slots restrictions, while Air France is struggling.

But as Piu said, for Africa, competition is stiff. KLM has a daily service to Nairobi, same thing for Kenya Airways which has a daily service to AMS. It means two flights a day between Ams and Nairobi, to feed Nairobi and Amsterdam hubs. Air France KLM has a JV with Kenya Airways

Air France resumed a 3 weekly service to Nairobi, in 2018 and Kenya Airways operates a daily service Paris Cdg. From Nairobi, Kenya Airways is now operating overnight flights to Brazzaville, Entebbe, Zanzibar, Dar Es Salaam, Kinshasa, Kigali (only in July and August) and on almost routes to Southern Africa.

Night flights perfect match, with Kenya Airways inbound service, from CDG, which arrives at Nairobi, in evening and the Air France outbound service to CDG, which leaves Nairobi, early in the morning. Kenya Airways added 3 more weekly last summer. There were up to 13 flights a week between CDG and NBO. Now AF operates 5 flights a week.

At CDG, passengers can fly with Delta (10 destinations from CDG) or Air France to North America. For flights to West Africa, KLM can send its passengers to CDG.

I hope that SN will keep spreading its wings to Africa. Some destinations are missing. But why not to sign a partnership, with Asky, they have great network, in West and Central Africa.

Asky serves some markets, probaly too small for SN (Bangui, Niamey, Malabo, N’Djamena, Pointe Noire, Bissau). But also some markets served by SN. You can do a Paris-Brussels-Lome (Asky hub)-Abidjan, then an Abidjan-Brussels-Paris. If timetables perfect match, trips won't be very long.

[lumumba]

Delta is the only one of Skyteam who is upgrading from time to time. It's a pity that we will not see their A330 at BRU, but who knows. But more than two destinations we will not see of them, I'm afraid

The other Chinese carriers in Skyteam has a too strong bound with KLM, so better is to rely on Hainan and to attract some other ones.

Maybe too far future and maybe not directly in the scope but Aero Mexico could be also a possibility. The destination is not unknown by Belgians. Two or three flights a week could be with the B787-8 or B787-9. They offer already flights to Mad, CDG, LHR and AMS. But they are updrading the frequenties ro MAD and CDG bcs of a huge European demand. Why not from Belgium as there is a Mexican and surroundings community too in Belgium.

But Conti764 just said they gone upgrade to A330?!
So who is right!

Hi Lumumba,

Delta had the intention to fly with the A330 to BRU but they changed their minds. They will fly instead with the new refurbished cabin and new business class in the B764 to BRU as from the beginning of next year

Ok thanks

[Matt]

Well, I think the 767-400 is an upgrade over the a330-200, pax wise that is. Delta's configuration allows more passengers in the 767-400 than in the a330-200, plus it's a 2-3-2 layout in economy, which is very nice

( not complaining about that change here )

Only downside I see is that the cabin of a 767 has a lot more noise than the a330... but owh well.

[Conti764]

Impressive summary, Atlantis.

They are worth looking at, because Delta has always been a strong contender in BRU with its two major hubs in JFK and ATL drawing throngs of travellers.

Delta is the only one of Skyteam who is upgrading from time to time. It's a pity that we will not see their A330 at BRU, but who knows. But more than two destinations we will not see of them, I'm afraid

The other Chinese carriers in Skyteam has a too strong bound with KLM, so better is to rely on Hainan and to attract some other ones.

Maybe too far future and maybe not directly in the scope but Aero Mexico could be also a possibility. The destination is not unknown by Belgians. Two or three flights a week could be with the B787-8 or B787-9. They offer already flights to Mad, CDG, LHR and AMS. But they are updrading the frequenties ro MAD and CDG bcs of a huge European demand. Why not from Belgium as there is a Mexican and surroundings community too in Belgium.

But Conti764 just said they gone upgrade to A330?!
So who is right!

No, I didn't. I said DL will upgrade both flights to 764's...

[lumumba]

Delta is the only one of Skyteam who is upgrading from time to time. It's a pity that we will not see their A330 at BRU, but who knows. But more than two destinations we will not see of them, I'm afraid

The other Chinese carriers in Skyteam has a too strong bound with KLM, so better is to rely on Hainan and to attract some other ones.

Maybe too far future and maybe not directly in the scope but Aero Mexico could be also a possibility. The destination is not unknown by Belgians. Two or three flights a week could be with the B787-8 or B787-9. They offer already flights to Mad, CDG, LHR and AMS. But they are updrading the frequenties ro MAD and CDG bcs of a huge European demand. Why not from Belgium as there is a Mexican and surroundings community too in Belgium.

But Conti764 just said they gone upgrade to A330?!
So who is right!

No, I didn't. I said DL will upgrade both flights to 764's...

Ok I understand my mistake.

[Atlantis]

LOT Polish Airlines is expanding further and furhter. They decided to strenghten their first abroad basis in Budapest with new long haul and European flights. Also new flights of LOT from Budapest to Brussels next year. This means also that LOT will be stronger at BRU with multiple flights a day, Warsaw, Tallin and Budapest.
They wants to order more B787 and even maybe the A350, the last one is a big question as they are Boeing orientated since long time. But ok, everything can change.

But LOT has a good presence in the Far East, so they can attract also travellers from Belgium via Poland or Hungary to fly with them.

This brings us to next developments. Chinese investors/companies sees a lot of potential in Belgium, mainly South of Belgium. Of course, bcs they want to have a foot everywhere.

But two Chinese destinations can come into the spotlights: Xian and Guangzhou. Hainan recently openend the new destination Xian to CDG. Mostly BRU will follow after.

Depending on the agreements between China and Belgium we have to see how many carriers are allowed to fly. If Hainan is the lucky one to fly alone than Guangzhou can be for them.

If an other carrier is allowed too, than I can see this potential for China Southern Airlines, who stepped out of Skyteam Alliance or the sister company Sichuan Airlines who can open Xian. If it could be China Southern Airlines, who is going to work closely with American Airlines, maybe it could be a step too for AA to come back to BRU.

This is pure business as the Chinese community is not big in Belgium but mainly from Hong Kong where we have Cathay Pacific for and is already served.

An other option which can be is to give fifth freedom rights to Emirates to open routes ex-BRU to South America and India. LATAM is still in the picture but for India is one big question who it can be. Air India is financialy not strong enough and has close bounds with LH. Indigo is still looking to where is will fly in Europe. Some destinations they know already but BRU is not in their top list. So Emirates can fill that gap as the potential, pax and business, is there.

From SN we don't have to expect that they can open it as focus is on being profitable again and main focus on Africa.

[theeuropean]

I think AC should do all the Canada flying, doing Toronto and Montreal daily, and maybe add Vancouver for a good mix.
LH should finally grow up and let AI (no matter their financial situation since they are government-backed) start a route to India. Let United add Houston, Denver, San Francisco to the US.
Let SN dominate the Africa, MENA region all under a JV.
For LatAm - Avianca (although how are they doing financially)?
LH won't gain anything and lose more with their longhaul EW project - and their stubbornness.

Those are my 2 cents.

[Atlantis]

I have changed the title a little bit and added Skyteam to it. Skyteam has still some potential to grow further at BRU but will be limited as a few airlines/destinations are not directly for BRU. It will remain the smallest alliance at BRU but nevertheless an important one.

Besides that DL will upgrade the two current destinations to the B764, I would like to add something more tricky. Maybe not tricky but speaking more regarding their JV with AF/KLM. Boston is one of the hubs of DL. For years we are waiting already but no sign from UA and from SN we don't have to expect it. For AA and UA are not a hub, so there is only one carrier from where it can come and this is DL. Skyteam could play it well bcs they have already their customers at LHR, CDG and AMS. DL can have the load from from Belgium itself and taking away some pax from Germany. They could do nasty things in the backyard of LH by opening the Boston route with DL.

Regarding United, Star, the focus is on Houston as a direct flight and also Los Angeles and San Francisco. If potential is low can be a triangle as Newark/Los Angeles, Washington/San Francisco or Los Angeles/San Francisco

Oneworld is growing again at BRU as Royal Air Maroc will offer more direct flights instead of triangle flights

[nordikcam]

But two Chinese destinations can come into the spotlights: Xian and Guangzhou. Hainan recently openend the new destination Xian to CDG. Mostly BRU will follow after.

Depending on the agreements between China and Belgium we have to see how many carriers are allowed to fly. If Hainan is the lucky one to fly alone than Guangzhou can be for them.

If an other carrier is allowed too, than I can see this potential for China Southern Airlines, who stepped out of Skyteam Alliance or the sister company Sichuan Airlines who can open Xian. If it could be China Southern Airlines, who is going to work closely with American Airlines, maybe it could be a step too for AA to come back to BRU.

I think I read - but contradict me if necessary - that the Belgium China agreements provide for BRU that another Chinese carrier could come if it does not serve the currently served cities of Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen so ...as Cathay did for HKG...

[Atlantis]

Exactly. That's why other destinations are in the picture to widen the portfolio. To add an other carrier on the already existing routes is suicide. It would not take long. The carriers who are in the picture are strong on their home base and serving others than what we have now

[Conti764]

Since UA has 'some' hub activity at BRU (f.e. they do their own check-in if I'm not mistaken) maybe they could fly from one of their current destinations-BRU-BOS and back if the market is there?

[JOVAN]

AMERICAN just announces big expansion in Eastern Europe.

Eg 5 times a week to Krakau !!!

I would have expected something was in for BRU ( Philadelpia ??)

Capital of Europe airport is not getting a lot lately.