It is the third time that a judge rules in favour of the inhabitants of the Noordrand. The two previous times the judgment was annulled in appeal, because the judge exceeded his competence. It is likely that this judgment will be annulled as well.Passenger wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 10:18 On request of Grimbergen, Machelen, Meise, Vilvoorde and Wemmel, a Judge has ruled that minister Bellot must make an aviation law before Februari 2020, and that minister Bellot must consult formally with all parties involved before 17th September 2018.
https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/re ... ~abb9f617/
Brussels region noise regulation
Moderator: Latest news team
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Hi all, this is a very informative forum. Thanks to all for sharing the latest news. Did anyone hear an update already? Or do you think we need to wait until 17th of September.
kr
Vegas
kr
Vegas
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
http://www.brusselstimes.com/brussels/1 ... verflights
"Ten Brussels communes have joined in an action to suspend noise pollution in the Brussels-Capital region against the federal state, for violating noise level standards linked to the activities of Brussels Airport at Zaventem. "
"Ten Brussels communes have joined in an action to suspend noise pollution in the Brussels-Capital region against the federal state, for violating noise level standards linked to the activities of Brussels Airport at Zaventem. "
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Is there someone with a subscription on La Dernière Heure to tell us what's this? Apparently a signature is missing to collect the fines legally.
http://www.dhnet.be/actu/belgique/avion ... c91b4fba33
http://www.dhnet.be/actu/belgique/avion ... c91b4fba33
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Airline fines: thousands of euros lost
For weeks already, the court (Raad van State) has been destroying the decisions in which the Environmental Dept. of the Brussels government fines an airline for the violation of the noise standards included in the Gosuin Decree of 1999.
This means tens of thousands of euros of lost fines, not to mention the fact that each time a payment of a procedural compensation (700 euros) from the Environmental Dept. of the Brussels government to the other party is imposed.
source: Sudpresse newspaper 15/01 and https://www.lameuse.be/332653/article/2 ... ros-perdus (French)
For weeks already, the court (Raad van State) has been destroying the decisions in which the Environmental Dept. of the Brussels government fines an airline for the violation of the noise standards included in the Gosuin Decree of 1999.
This means tens of thousands of euros of lost fines, not to mention the fact that each time a payment of a procedural compensation (700 euros) from the Environmental Dept. of the Brussels government to the other party is imposed.
source: Sudpresse newspaper 15/01 and https://www.lameuse.be/332653/article/2 ... ros-perdus (French)
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Electricity in the air between Brussels Airport management and its mediator:
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Update on this court verdict of 30th May 2018:sn26567 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2018, 14:59It is the third time that a judge rules in favour of the inhabitants of the Noordrand. The two previous times the judgment was annulled in appeal, because the judge exceeded his competence. It is likely that this judgment will be annulled as well.Passenger wrote: ↑31 May 2018, 10:18 On request of Grimbergen, Machelen, Meise, Vilvoorde and Wemmel, a Judge has ruled that minister Bellot must make an aviation law before Februari 2020, and that minister Bellot must consult formally with all parties involved before 17th September 2018.
https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/re ... ~abb9f617/
1. The Belgian State did not filed an appeal, hence that judgement stands.
2. Action group "Actie Noordrand / Daedalos" has asked the Flemish political parties if they still support that court verdict. CD&V, N-VA, SPA and VLD do so. Groen (Ecolo) only agrees with that court verdict when it's a first step towards less flights in general, and towards a night curfew 22h-07h. Groen of course disagrees with the Brussels Airport 2040 expansion plan.
Here are their full answers:
www:
http://www.actie-noordrand.be/Politieke ... matiek.htm
pdf:
http://www.actie-noordrand.be/DaedalusP ... matiek.pdf
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Just to put everything in perspective 9% of the workers are coming from Wallonia 14% from Brussels 77% from Flanders for me you can divide the hassle in the same proportion and the problem will be resolved!
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French and it's with fireback!
http://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20190521_04415325
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French and it's with fireback!
http://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20190521_04415325
Hasta la victoria siempre.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
You want to discuss that again? Fine, no problem. But it's amazing how you disregard / minimalize the 5.200 jobs for Wallo-Brux. And it could be 400 more: 400 vacancies, no interest from Wallo-Brux inhabitants.lumumba wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 08:30 Just to put everything in perspective 9% of the workers are coming from Wallonia 14% from Brussels 77% from Flanders for me you can divide the hassle in the same proportion and the problem will be resolved!
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French and it's with fireback!
http://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20190521_04415325
And let's discuss indirect employment too please: taxi drivers (non-Flemish probably around 90%), suppliers like external couriers, cargo transport drivers, ...
And of course we have to look at the employment in the whole Brussels convention & hospitality business, all depending from Flanders International Airport.
An airport can't speak. Who are you referring to? Check-in staff? Border Police? Customs? Shops? Restaurants & bars? Gate staff?
It is my experience that they all address passengers/visitors/clients in both NL and FR, untill they know which language one speaks.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
I agree!!!!lumumba wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 08:30 Just to put everything in perspective 9% of the workers are coming from Wallonia 14% from Brussels 77% from Flanders for me you can divide the hassle in the same proportion and the problem will be resolved!
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French and it's with fireback!
http://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20190521_04415325
We leave out Wallonia and distribute the remainder over Brussels and Flanders
So that would be 1/6 of the flights for Brussels, 5/6 for Flanders. So 1 flight out of 6 must fly then over Brussels.
Every aircraft makes noise twice: during landing and take-off.
With normal, western winds, all landing aircraft fly over Flanders withour bothering Brussels. So 3/6 flights covered for Flanders.
Now the departing flights have to be distributed: Flanders still has to accept 2 flights, Brussels 1.
1 flies over the North and stays over Flanders
1 flies straight over Brussels
1 flies South and then East and stays over Flanders.
I think Flanders can live with your proposal.
Cheers,
Stij
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Recruiters usually look for the best person for the job, living within reasonable distance is certainly one of the criteria, the region in which you live on the other hand is irrelevant.lumumba wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 08:30 Just to put everything in perspective 9% of the workers are coming from Wallonia 14% from Brussels 77% from Flanders for me you can divide the hassle in the same proportion and the problem will be resolved!
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French
Language knowledge, one of the most important skills for people working at the airport, is much better in Flanders than in Brussels or Wallonia. According to your feeling you may have to insist, but you are spoken to in your own language, which is often only the third language of the person you are speaking with.
I am certainly not blaming people from Brussels or Wallonia for not being fluent in Flemish, but you have to understand that speaking three languages is a absolute requirement for a lot of jobs at the NATIONAL airport.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
If Brussels Airport closes during the night, say between 22h-7h, we kill 2 birds with one stone : Airplan noise and the staffing problems at Skeyes.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Are you starting again with this narrow mind thinking!!!!lumumba wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 08:30 Just to put everything in perspective 9% of the workers are coming from Wallonia 14% from Brussels 77% from Flanders for me you can divide the hassle in the same proportion and the problem will be resolved!
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French and it's with fireback!
http://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20190521_04415325
Be happy that for a such small country we have a few very good airports. And for this small territory we have, sorry but we will bother all the time somebody. The airport is not in the desert.
And BTW, speaking about your "hassle" thanks to the airport, the hotels, restaurants, conference rooms are fully booked. The majority of reservations comes from foreign people. This is generating a lot of money for Brussels capital. Why they should have only the benefits?
Of no airport, Brussels as a capital would be even not on the map.
And as second. People from the airport are always ask which language you prefer.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
I don't see how this would solve staffing problems at skeyes
Area control center is open H24, dealing with other traffic (approximately 90 flights a night for LGG only ! )
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
I understand that and the airport is very important but in a densely populated area like this one this airport should be closed at night.Atlantis wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 13:32Are you starting again with this narrow mind thinking!!!!lumumba wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 08:30 Just to put everything in perspective 9% of the workers are coming from Wallonia 14% from Brussels 77% from Flanders for me you can divide the hassle in the same proportion and the problem will be resolved!
Anyway that was always my feeling it's not our national airport it's the Flanders International Airport always I have to insist before they start speaking French and it's with fireback!
http://m.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20190521_04415325
Be happy that for a such small country we have a few very good airports. And for this small territory we have, sorry but we will bother all the time somebody. The airport is not in the desert.
And BTW, speaking about your "hassle" thanks to the airport, the hotels, restaurants, conference rooms are fully booked. The majority of reservations comes from foreign people. This is generating a lot of money for Brussels capital. Why they should have only the benefits?
Of no airport, Brussels as a capital would be even not on the map.
And as second. People from the airport are always ask which language you prefer.
And the tourists or businesses or everyone from the international institution will not feel the difference.
But please close this airport at night it's not a good location LGG has a better location for example.
Hasta la victoria siempre.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Why should it be closed at night? DHL have done, and are doing, huge investments in the airport, to name just one stakeholder.
No matter where that traffic moves, there will always be people complaining.
Older, noisy aircraft are being replaced by newer, fuel efficient and especially less noisy aircraft pretty much constantly. On top of that, a lot of night traffic is flying adjusted SIDs which avoid Brussels city completely and only bother Flanders during the initial climb.
Some people will never be happy, but Brussels Airport is doing pretty much all they can to be a good neighbour.
No matter where that traffic moves, there will always be people complaining.
Older, noisy aircraft are being replaced by newer, fuel efficient and especially less noisy aircraft pretty much constantly. On top of that, a lot of night traffic is flying adjusted SIDs which avoid Brussels city completely and only bother Flanders during the initial climb.
Some people will never be happy, but Brussels Airport is doing pretty much all they can to be a good neighbour.
Thomas
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Ask the Thousands of people living in the are Riemst-Tongeren if LGG is such a good location when a US-bound fully loaded 747-F takes off from LGG 04 in the middle of the night.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
It will never be perfect but the density is much lower at both ends of the runway.
It can be in CDG or other airports that are better for night flights it doesn't have to be LGG but BRU is a very bad choice.
Hasta la victoria siempre.
Re: Brussels region noise regulation
Stop complaining or move.