The SN short- and medium-haul fleet

Post by **sn26567** » 06 Jul 2003, 11:50

Avro wrote:I've voted for the ERJ but I also wanted to vote for the B717 because i like both aircrafts.
Hope they'll order a mix of both airplanes

Very unlikely, Chris. Did you think of the maintenance costs for a mixed fleet?

Post by **luchtzak** » 06 Jul 2003, 12:00

sn26567 wrote:It all depends on the numbers of drinks, Dolf. And even with NA beer - containing 1% alcohol - you can get drunk

I know someone who get so drunk after 3 cocktails that they start to do funny things, do you know him as well Dolfke ?

8) 8)

ciao,

Bart
:drink:

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 06 Jul 2003, 16:35

sn26567 wrote: And why not? The MD80 was one of the quietest and most comfortable planes of its generation. Its updated version B717 should be at least as nice

Not only Olympic uses it, but JetBlue, if I am correct, recently completed its fleet of B717s.

It's AirTran, a US low-cost, who has a fleet of B717. they just ordered 10 more and allso 50 B737...
JetBlue is the low-cost with the 320's, and they just ordered 100 ERJ190

BBKing · Post by **BBKing** » 07 Jul 2003, 09:21

First of all .... sorry for getting

fftopic: last saturday, but I was at my office having a terrible job to do, so I start dreaming of girls .... Can you blame me for that???

I noticed by the way the birth of anotoher off topic issue: Bart's drinking at night stops ... Maybe we can start a poll about that topic too ???

Why nog a B717? Cause nobody likes it, ... even Boeing doesn't. Only AirTran and a few other airlines bought some planes. There must be a reason for that.

The CRJ is very popular amongst the major US airlines, so it has to be an economic work horse. Moreover it retained the typical style of the Challenger Business Jet. Flying the CRJ is a little bit of flying the Challenger ... That's why I voted for the CRJ.

On the other hand ... about the Embraer. A friend of mine used to be a mechanic at DAT some years ago and he was always complaining about the Emb-120 series. According to his stories, these Brasilian beauties must have been a logistic and mechanical nightmare. Not really a good choice for an airline with limited budgets such as SNBA I think.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 07 Jul 2003, 10:00

BBKing wrote:According to his stories, these Brasilian beauties must have been a logistic and mechanical nightmare. Not really a good choice for an airline with limited budgets such as SNBA I think.

I think that Embraer improved since that time, otherwise they wouldn't be able to compete today

Chris

Post by **sn26567** » 07 Jul 2003, 10:15

Avro wrote:I think that Embraer improved since that time, otherwise they wouldn't be able to compete today

The Embraer 145 has one major setback: no room for hand baggage that is a little bulky. On my return flight from MAN last week, I had to give it to a baggage handler before boarding the plane, and pick it up on arrival at BRU.

I do not think that situation has improved a lot on the EMB 170/190. For that matter, the champions should be the B717 and the A318.

BBKing · Post by **BBKing** » 07 Jul 2003, 10:20

Maybe the Embraers are delivered with female Brasilian Flight Attendants, and is that the reason why they are so popular ... And perhaps that's also the reason why Bart is such an Embraer fan !!!

In that case I change my vote for the Embraer!!!

No, being serious now, I know that the earlier Embraers despite allegedly being logistical nightmares were also very popular in the US, so there must have been other reasons for that.

Are there any mechanics in the audience who can confirm the stories I heard?

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 07 Jul 2003, 10:23

sn26567 wrote:I do not think that situation has improved a lot on the EMB 170/190. For that matter, the champions should be the B717 and the A318.

It'll surely be a difficult choice to do, because every aircraft on the list has its positive performances and its negative ones

Let's just hope SNBA will do the right choice for them.

BBKing wrote:Maybe the Embraers are delivered with female Brasilian Flight Attendants, and is that the reason why they are so popular ... And perhaps that's also the reason why Bart is such an Embraer fan !!!

That would be cool

Greetz
Chris

Post by **sn26567** » 07 Jul 2003, 10:50

BBKing wrote:I know that the earlier Embraers despite allegedly being logistical nightmares were also very popular in the US, so there must have been other reasons for that.

Are there any mechanics in the audience who can confirm the stories I heard?

I am an engineer, not a mechanic. I will describe another experience I had with an "early" Embraer, the 110 Bandeirante, owned and operated by EAT. It was a flight chartered by BBL Travel from Charleroi to Barcelona in order to visit a technical fair.

1) The distance was too long; therefore there was an intermediate refuelling stop at Poitiers.

2) With only 17 seats (fully occupied), there was no stewardess (no steward either, Bart). So the co-pilot had to leave the cockpit to serve meals and drinks.

3) While doing so, he was putting the plane out of balance, so there was a device automatically adjusting the rudder to keep the plane in balance. This seemed quite sophisticated to me for an "early" Embraer.

This doesn't tell anything about the difficulty of the logistics, of course. But at least it tells you you should not underestimate the Brazilian technology.

Dorfmeister · Post by **Dorfmeister** » 07 Jul 2003, 20:21

For me the bests solutions are

1) Either going on with a mixed fleet of A318-319-330. Main interest: fleet commonality.

2) Or going on with a 330-318/319 (around 6 or 7 'crafts) and EMB-190.

Like these you have, I think, the best flexibility for your needs.

Regards,

Benjamin

meerkat · Post by **meerkat** » 08 Jul 2003, 09:20

Andre

Your mail reminde me of a flight my brother made, back in the 70's, from Manchester to Aberdeen, via Dundee in a DHC-6 Twin Otter. This was then a single pilot operation with no cabin crew so when the time came for refreshments to be served the pilot asked the passenger in the front seat to open a compartment, pour the drinks and hand round the sandwiches! A bit of a surprise.

Dundee is a small airfield next to the the River Tay and then was a grass strip which confused many travellers. After this stop the journey to Aberdeen was VFR at 1500 feet following the coastline - one of my brother's most memorable flights.

Meerkat

Post by **luchtzak** » 09 Jul 2003, 23:55

Hi all,

I see that the great Embraer 170 is at the lead with 50% of the votes!!

I will add that little extra so the people who still need to vote will also vote for the 170

https://www.aviation24.be/modules.php?op=m ... erby=dateD

Look at the nice design of that beauty !!

ciao,

Bart

Post by **sn26567** » 10 Jul 2003, 09:20

luchtzak wrote:I see that the great Embraer 170 is at the lead with 50% of the votes!! I will add that little extra so the people who still need to vote will also vote for the 170

How much did they pay you to advertise for them

I declare the poll non valid, because the voters have been influenced at the door of the voting booth

Post by **sn26567** » 11 Jul 2003, 09:32

SN BA is not the only airline looking at regional jets. here is a news item I picked up this morning:

Air Canada, Lufthansa, Austrian Airlines and SAS, all members of the Star Alliance partnership, are mulling a large group purchase, hoping to get better terms from aircraft makers than if they bought alone.

The four partners are looking at the Boeing 717, the 107-seat Airbus A318, Bombardier's 70-seat CRJ 700 and 90-seat CRJ 900 and Embraer's 170/190, which will seat roughly 70 to 100 passengers.

All four are generally designed for short-haul flights serving smaller cities, at the large end of a category called "regional jets".

Wow

The same candidates SN BA is looking at

(except that the Fokker is not an option here - which seems reasonable: you don't buy a plane that doesn't exist anymore).

Why shouldn't SN BA join this consortium to get better terms from the constructors

Lyulka · Post by **Lyulka** » 15 Jul 2003, 13:01

What about the dornier 328 or the other one looking like the embraer (728?) ? Now that the company is sold, and that the latter aircaft will probably go into production, I think it also is an option.

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 15 Jul 2003, 16:09

The discussion here is about the fleet renewable of SNBA, but the only aircrafts where is talked about is from 70 until 110 or something. But if SNBA chooses one aircraft the have no flexibility of switching capacity. If they chose for a number of aircrafts than they have the flexibility of capacity. Now they have 32 aircrafts of Bae whit a capacity from +/- 80-100 and if you count the seats that are +/- 2882 seats. But is if the renew their fleet whit 5 A320(150 pax), 5 A319 (124 Pax), 10 A318 (107 pax) and 10 Embraers 145 (+/- 50pax) they have 2940 seats. When their do this they can change the capacity of the aircrafts to the needs of the traffic.

Greetz,

Dave

BBKing · Post by **BBKing** » 15 Jul 2003, 16:28

Good thinking Dave !!!! Dave for president ... of SNBA !!!!

By the way, yesterday I met a regular business traveller, who was very very happy with SNBA. His comment: very good punctuality, good service, nice flight attendants and very well flight schedule. So go SNBA, go ... !!!

dolfke · Post by **dolfke** » 15 Jul 2003, 16:58

I wouldn't mind some 50 seaters but the problem is that most of them are not very comfortable for the pax, unless you think it's cosy sitting on the lap of another passenger (ok ok some passengers, a.k.a. the daily babes, would be more than welcome to sit on my lap but that's not the point).
Plus I don't think the crewsz flying them would mind doing it except if the managment thinks they should pay us less as the aircraft is smaller (which is a very stupid idea in air transport a a whole).
I always wonder if a 50 seater is really that much cheaper to operate than a bigger aircraft, because they do have a lot less revenue (less pax -> less money, right?). As those planes have two engines too, they should cost about as much in maintenance too right, and don't tell me they use only half as much fuel , because then everybody would use those efficient engines or aerodynamic designs.
Probably it has to do with landing taxes and such, but I fail to see it, sorry guys.
that's probably why I just drive them things and not manage our company

nice flying ya all
dolf

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 15 Jul 2003, 18:03

SNBA can maybe make a 50seater? I they take an Avro 85 or 100 cut a gap in the back side of the aircraft, put a cargo floor in the half of the aircraft place a wall in the middle and you have a 50 seater and a +/- 8 ton cargo aircraft.

Greetz,

Dave

OOSRC · Post by **OOSRC** » 17 Jul 2003, 23:51

Airliner World of August 2003 (page 16):
On the jetBlue Embraer 190 order:
"...the Brazilian manufacturer has confirmed that it has already secured a second customer for the aircraft, but is contractually obliged not to reveal the name..." The order is for 10 aircraft plus 20 options and the aircraft would be delivered from 2005. SNBA must replace 30 BAE146/AVRO RJ's. Is SNBA that new customer??? Remember that Embraer made a presentation of the aircraft in Brussels in 2002.

Aviation24.be

The SN short- and medium-haul fleet

What aircraft would you favour for the extension of SN BA's fleet

BAe AVRO replacement