Flight Data Failure at Belgocontrol -> Clear The Sky

[mvg]

@Kriva
Last en-route procedural course was given 25 years ago in Belgium. Last approach procedural around 15 years ago.
EBBR back-up tower was used live half a year ago: true. There is no back-up for the ACC/APP control room, which is the most important after all. Without ACC/APP, no flights... And nothing is set up in the other airports...
About testing: all controllers have to take a computer theoretical test which is impossible to fail (unlimited attempts and question bank available -> thank you unions). No practical testing exists. A paper is signed by an assessor to comply with DGTA requirements but no feedback or corrective measure is ever given. This "OCA test" (correct me if I am wrong) is a joke and controllers are scared that it falls out of their hands.

@SR20
Yes, I had a connection:
- 15 flights inbound EBBR between 23.30 and 06.00 (that's just over two per hour)
- Liège had 30 inbounds, most of them between 23.30 and 01.00, approach control is done from EBLG tower
- Charleroi was closed
- Antwerp was closed
- Oostende had 2 flights over the night
- Traffic to EDDK from the West is only handled by Brussels ACC east high sector for a descent of around 6000ft. The rest of the descent is handled by Eurocontrol and Langen. Not a big deal for Brussels control...

@ Bapt
First of all, hello.

The contingency room in Canac 1 is a joke: it takes 24 hours to start it up )) And it has NEVER been tested live! They even refused to start it up in 2015 cause it was too complicated Have you ever seen it?

Neighbors also have high salaries: true! Good for them!

35h/week is the theory and practice if you don't agree to work more. Some refuse to work more, others accept it to make (a lot of) extra money --> 10000+ every 3 month. Is it normal to offer someone 150/200€ to come one hour earlier to fill in a gap?

Controllers have of course right for breaks! If you know another ANSP where they work 3 hours out of 7 and leave before the end of their shift, let me know. And nights where you work 4 hours and get paid 14?

40 arrivals and departures at the same time in EBLG? That's joke, isn't it? Liège has an arrival peak between 23.00 and 01.00 and the departures don't leave before 03.30. Liège is a cargo hub: all the planes land, parcels are sorted and then only, all the planes leave.

Extra hours are not mandatory indeed. But some abuse the system and don't want to make any effort unless they are given money. Why is the company starting to hire people on short term contract? To gradually have a group of people who will finally do what they want, when they want.


I'll also leave it here and thank you all for this exchange of opinions/ideas! We all have the same goal: let's keep the skies safe!

[HQ_BRU_Lover]

I'm an outsider in this particular case. But it's clear there are some problems at Belgocontrol.

But what I like about this discussion is the different points of view from members. And the way they talk about it: not afraid to tell their story, but in a respectful way.

I hope this discussion can continue like that as this is truly a great addition to these forums!

[jan_olieslagers]

Not wanting to discuss ATC staff or their work conditions, I try to think of what actually happened. In the radio news I heard that "the systems became very slow during data upload, it was decided to restart the system". And I couldn't helping thinking - with a smile of recognition - "hm, probably on Windows servers, and most likely decided by a person with a Windows background".

[sn26567]

Among the 20 cancelled flights, 12 were Brussels Airlines flights. Some 1000 passengers were affected, and for those blocked in Brussels, hotel rooms were provided.

[Pitar]

New to the forum, first question.

Could someone explain what the impact of the "clear the sky" procedure is on GA VFR traffic already in the Belgian airspace?
Is VFR still allowed in class G airspace or is a diversion to the nearest uncontrolled airfield necessary?
How is this communicated to the airborne traffic? Broadcast?

[Pitar]

New to the forum, first question.

Could someone explain to me what the impact of the "clear the sky" procedure is for airborne GA VFR traffic below 7500ft?
Is a diversion to an uncontrolled airfield necessary?
How is this communicated to the airborne traffic? (broadcast?)
I'm assuming crossing the border is no longer possible as is landing in a controlled zone?
For instance a flight from EHMZ to EBOS?

Thanks in advance!

[sn26567]

Welcome to Aviation24.be, Pitar. Hopefully someone will answer your question soon.

[jan_olieslagers]

I was at my airfield at the time, and in a discussion at the bar it was mentioned that uncontrolled airspace was not affected. Mind you, the upper limit for uncontrolled airspace in the EBBU FIR is 4500', not 7500'.

And yes, FIS (Brussels Information) will do a general broadcast occasionally, for example for a change in regional QNH. But there is still no general obligation to carry a radio.

[Pitar]

I was at my airfield at the time, and in a discussion at the bar it was mentioned that uncontrolled airspace was not affected. Mind you, the upper limit for uncontrolled airspace in the EBBU FIR is 4500', not 7500'.

And yes, FIS (Brussels Information) will do a general broadcast occasionally, for example for a change in regional QNH. But there is still no general obligation to carry a radio.

Hi Jan, thanks for the answer.
I'm aware that the limit is 4500', but some news papers mentioned an "evacuation" between 0 and 7500'.
I've only recently acquired my PPL and actually never learned anything about this situation while studying.
Was curious on how to react in this kind of situation and what the general impact is.
So if I understand correctly there is no impact as long as you navigate around the controlled airspace.
I'm assuming landing on a controlled airfield is not possible?

[jan_olieslagers]

I assume so, too But one could always give them a call on the radio. And there is of course the extreme "solution" of declaring an emergency - but one would have a lot of explaining to do...

Come to think of it, I wonder whether Brussels Information announced the closure of controlled airspace as I'd expect - anybody know?

[mvg]

"Clear the sky" is an ATC procedure.
The name itself is wrong, it should say "clear the airspace controlled by Belgocontrol".
Traffic under Maastricht ACC's control (above FL245) and above belgian territory was not affected at all...
Traffic at regional airports (for example a PPL pilot doing touch and go's in Antwerp) isn't affected, as long as everything is working at tower's level.
Traffic departing/arriving from/to EBBR or a from/to a regional airport and intending to fly through airspace controlled by Belgocontrol (ACC or EBBR APP) is impacted and that's why so many flights were cancelled or delayed.That's basically all commercial traffic in and out Belgian airports.

If you are flying outside controlled airspace (class G), you are not impacted by this procedure. In class G, you are not even obliged to call Brussels info (or Belga radar for some pilots).

[flightlover]

If radar goes down, don't they switch to vfr then? I can imagine the number of max movements falls way down but at least some planes can land.

[jan_olieslagers]

As far as I understand, it was not the radar that went down.

[mvg]

If radar fails, pilots flying commercial plane will never swith to VFR...
First of all, companies don't allow pilots to do so. Then what if they are not in VMC conditions? And last but not least, to fly VFR you need some knowledge of the area you are flying in and VFR maps.

When radar fails, it is ATC's responsibility to maintain separation between planes under their control. It is not a pilot's business.
How to maintain separation without radar: use basic 1000ft separation, use procedural separations, ask adajcent centres (or approach/towers) to take control of some of the planes flying close to the airspace under their jurisdiction.
In every civilized country, there is a back-up control foreseen at a very REDUCED rate. With a small country like Belgium in case of radar failure, that would be easy: the eastern part could be controlled by Germany, the southern by France and the northern by the Netherlands. All at a very reduced rate for traffic in and out of Belgian airports, overflights could avoid Belgium easily by flying around (such a small country isn't a big deal to be flown around) or above (Maastricht UAC controls above FL245). Belgium could do the same (at a reduced rate) for the neighbors in case they have a failure. Are we in Europe or?
Of course this needs to be put down clearly into procedures, it takes time and energy and brings nothing to the company.
So they do...nothing! Nothing exists, nothing is foreseen: shame for passengers, for airlines!

[flightlover]

That's a clear answer, thx mvg

[Acid-drop]

Not wanting to discuss ATC staff or their work conditions, I try to think of what actually happened. In the radio news I heard that "the systems became very slow during data upload, it was decided to restart the system". And I couldn't helping thinking - with a smile of recognition - "hm, probably on Windows servers, and most likely decided by a person with a Windows background".

If it only takes a few morons and one reboot to clear the sky it is scary.