Brussels Airlines in 2018

[saratoga]

After Gustin will all staff become unemployed as well and wet lease with CityJet or BMI stopped to be made by german companies.

And European Union? "There is no problem, isnt?"

I think when it will be Eurowings, there will be no more wetlease contracts at all, this is not fitting in their cost structure i assume.

Sad times.

[Poiu]

Once again Belgians let Lufthansa do what the company wants with their legacy carrier...

As said many times before, LH saved SN from bankruptcy. Without LH there would be no SN today.
If LH wants to transform SN today, it’s because the figures are probably not very good. There has been a modest profit over the last years, but that was driven by low fuel prices, hidden subsidies and LH support.
A transformation into EW is, probably, the only long term viable solution for SN.

[sean1982]

I made a post a while back about the consequences for BRU and putting all their eggs in one basket. Needless to say I was flamed as a “hater” and a “troll”

[Poiu]

If Gustin is fired, they can use him as a CEO. He built Sn to what it is now

In the the ten years of Gustin’s reign SN has continuously been on the edge of bankruptcy, his own words just before the LH takeover: “we are in survival mode”. It is LH which saved SN, not Gustin.

[Aviator81]

Aren’t we too emotional and negatieve? If Gustin don’t want to follow LH’s vision about one big LCC (EW) they wan’t him out of the board... doesn’t mean that they will stop SN because SN is a profitabele and strong brand in Belgium (and Africa). Or let’s assume the whole fleet is repainted into EW livery (maybe with subtitels “operated by Brussels Airlines”?). I can’t belief SN/EW/LH will leave BRU as a destination iso a Hub...

[pilot_gent]

Sad news if the brand would disappear, don't count on the flying public however to back Brussels Airlines. They don't care about a name. Cheap, cheaper, cheapest.

Just type in some airline names in your search engine of choice and you will always find something in the format of this: Airline name - tickets from 'ridiculous low price'

If the change in name happens, let us hope that at least for all employees this means equal or better working conditions. Don't be fooled by the name, it was already a German company just like that other "Belgian" airline.

[Passenger]

A lot of rumours here, based upon a lot of newspaper reports based on... rumours.

When all those press reports are right, Lufthansa is going to take commercially decisions that are extremely stupid. Seriously: Lufthansa knows how the business works. And meanwhile, they also know the product "Brussels Airlines" very well. Rumours say that they will move AFI to Frankfurt. No way: they won't do that. Most AFI destinations from SN need Brussels as airport (or mini hub). It's French speaking VFR traffic. They want use an airport where they speak French, they want to fly an airline that addresses them in French. When LH would move AFI flights from BRU to FRA, the VFR traffic will not follow them. And don't forget: when it becomes "Eurowings" , there is no link anymore to... Sabena.

The dismissal from Gustin (and his financial assistant) is also such an extremely stupid decision. Lufthansa hasn't bought Brussels Airlines to make their Eurowings number one at BRU. And Lufthansa hasn't bought Brussels Airlines to get Belgian long haul passengers to fly out of FRA, MUC or DUS. They bought Brussels Airlines for the revenu/return on investment. And Gustin and team have proven that the hybrid system against Ryanair, EasyJet, Vueling & co works.

Unless the 2017 financial figures are totally different from... the rumours we have heared so far ("+50 mio profit"). But if the 2017 figures are excellent, it's a huge gamble for Lufthansa to overturn Brussels Airlines from hybrid into full low cost. In soccer, they say "Never change a winning team". Will Lufthansa be able to make more money with Eurowings then with Brussels Airlines? Again: that's a huge gamble.

[flightlover]

If Gustin is fired, they can use him as a CEO. He built Sn to what it is now

In the the ten years of Gustin’s reign SN has continuously been on the edge of bankruptcy, his own words just before the LH takeover: “we are in survival mode”. It is LH which saved SN, not Gustin.

Times have changed, the economy is way stronger than the moment LH stepped in. And not to forget, they know the recipe for success that suites present market demand.

[Poiu]

If Gustin is fired, they can use him as a CEO. He built Sn to what it is now

In the the ten years of Gustin’s reign SN has continuously been on the edge of bankruptcy, his own words just before the LH takeover: “we are in survival mode”. It is LH which saved SN, not Gustin.

Times have changed, the economy is way stronger than the moment LH stepped in. And not to forget, they know the recipe for success that suites present market demand.

Not sure, recently C Spohr urged Gustin to spend more time improving his figures iso on his bicycle in Africa.

[Inquirer]

As said many times before, LH saved SN from bankruptcy. Without LH there would be no SN today.
(...)
It is LH which saved SN, not Gustin.

I think it's fair to say it has been Lufthansa's money and a lot of hard work from Gustin and his team, yet as so often both are eager to take full and sole credit for the success, which seems to be what this is really all about: not so much the difference in strategy (both brussels airlines and eurowings have been made remarkably identical already), but who can lead them in future: 2 seperate teams (each in charge of just one brand), or just one team (in charge of an integrated brand).

Looking at the second biggest Belgian airline, they now fly around in generic baby blue seen allover Europe and with a 3 letter abbreviation as their new name which is coming straight from German too (Touristik Union International) and nobody is becoming hysterical over it, so clearly they took the quite rational option of going for a maximum of integration to take full benefit of the size of the group they firmly belong to? I fail to see why the same path is so controversial for Brussels Airlines to some?

As I've said before, there's just too much emotional attachment to a certain logo or a certain name when it comes to aviation, especially with an airline which has changed name, colours and its logo at least 3 times in its 15 year history already: they need to sell all of their (extra) seats under the name best suited to do so, period. And if that means they better sell under something else on some (or even all) of their routes in future, who cares? Other than the competitors, that is.

Other than that, let's not get carried away here: every time Lufthansa had plans with taking their investment a step further, the press was full of scenarios in which everything would be moved away from BRU to FRA, but meanwhile the operations have more than doubled in size at BRU.

One can't have growth without some form of change from time to time, and yes, maybe some refocussing may be appropriate too after all the commercial reorientation and rapid growth they saw over the past few years, because when you have become a company who effectively needs to be everything to everybody, everywhere and all the time, you risk being second choice behind the market leader in each of the market segments you target. It's a comment I've made in relation to another large (foreign) airline operating from Belgium in the past too, havent I, Sean?

[Passenger]

Not sure, recently C Spohr urged Gustin to spend more time improving his figures iso on his bicycle in Africa.

A rumour in a press article is not a fact. Correct statement should be: "some newspapers report that rumours are that Spohr said to Gustin that he should spend more time..."

Source with "rumours are":
http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20180203_03337 ... -het-einde
http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180202_03336203

[Poiu]

Not sure, recently C Spohr urged Gustin to spend more time improving his figures iso on his bicycle in Africa.

A rumour in a press article is not a fact. Correct statement should be: "some newspapers report that rumours are that Spohr said to Gustin that he should spend more time..."

Source with "rumours are":
http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20180203_03337 ... -het-einde
http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180202_03336203

More than a rumour, the Standard is pretending they quote an insider.

[DeltaWiskey]

I think some of you are jumping to conclusions far to soon.

I am not surprised by the news that B. Gustin (and JDR) might have to look for a new career direction. Yes, they have done a lot of good things for SN, but I expect anyone in those positions to have some exceptional capabilities, strengths and dedication. I also think BG and JDR saw it coming for a while. eg Gustin taking up a role in the Elia board and becoming chairman last December. Apparently, B Gustin made himself look like a fool in front of Carsten Spohr and the LH Board already a couple of times in the last 12 months. He is a great analyst / salesman, but comes short in other departments like technical / operational knowledge (he is accountable manager after all). It is no secret that he did not get on too well with Carsten Spohr.

If I am honest, I don't think that Gustin will stay in the aviation sector if he's looking for a new challenge. I wish him all the best with whatever he is going to do.

And I hope that some rumours, like the horror scenario of relocating Africa ops to FRA, will not become reality.
I also don't understand why Brussels Airlines is treated so differently than OS within the LH Group. Their margins are very similar.

[Passenger]

A rumour in a press article is not a fact. Correct statement should be: "some newspapers report that rumours are that Spohr said to Gustin that he should spend more time..."
Source with "rumours are":
http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20180203_03337 ... -het-einde
http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180202_03336203

More than a rumour, the Standard is pretending they quote an insider.

De Standaard doesn't mention the qualification from their "insider", so it's probably a trade unionist. Without a real name, the above quote remains a rumour.

[Sai]

I’m quite surprised that so many people seem shocked now…
I actually was last year…when the take-over took place and the plans were laid out…They just did what they already announced: “SN will be integrated in low-cost EW”. No news there.

Some people speak of SN as a “national carrier” dissapearing... It isn’t a national carrier anymore since the demise of SABENA. In the current globalized world were consolidation seems the word in aviation ‘national carriers’ in the West is something of the past used by nostalgic people…based on emotions instead of business.

People angry with LH: Don’t forget if they didn’t invest years ago in SN, SN would already then be bankrupt and finished…Most years they booked losses of millions…So THANKS to LH jobs were saved at SN and in BRU.

I have no knowledge on the traffic rights issues: just a simple frequent flyer.

Me neither, but …One can expect that if someone pays (above and under the table) the Congolese in power this can change very rapidly. Seen the current troubles on a diplomatic and political level between both, Belgium isn’t the ‘Grand Papa’ anymore…Asians pay and invest a multiple in Congo…

(…) Is Spohr just a liar?

Not really…He executes the plans that were already known…At the moment he said whatever was important to calm the shareholders and SN staff because at such a key moment one must avoid strikes or bad news. So he did what he was paid for as a CEO…

I don't know what is possible now, but maybe BRU should reconsider its position towards Air Belgium and in time, transfer all traffic rights from SN(EW) to AB.

Air Belgium
Why? What have they already proven? Because of the name ‘Belgium’??? Again based on emotions, not business reality.
A non-existing Airline (for the moment) without an AOC and/or experience in Africa with older A/C that can carry no cargo (from CRL)? And on the other hand want to offer cheap tickets??

Then I have more hopes in VLM or TUI. They both have an AOC and TUI already has experience in Africa (Kenia, Tanzania, Gambia,…). The latter already applied for the traffic rights to FIH and operated (a few years?) for the national airline of Congo (-Brazaville)…


Nevertheless I genuinly hope and wish all the best for BRU & SN staff and a positive or better outcome somehow.

[sn26567]

I think when it will be Eurowings, there will be no more wetlease contracts at all, this is not fitting in their cost structure i assume.

Eurowings is wet-leasing aircraft from TUI, Privatair, Sun Express, Brussels Airlines, ...

[CTBke]

I think when it will be Eurowings, there will be no more wetlease contracts at all, this is not fitting in their cost structure i assume.

Eurowings is wet-leasing aircraft from TUI, Privatair, Sun Express, Brussels Airlines, ...

The SunExpress one is soon to be finished as SN will take over the Long Haul flights as it would become a mess having one A330 being operated by XG while the other is operated by SN ... and the TUI and Privatair is because they're short in planes while Brussels Airlines isn't really a wetlease as it's one from the group

[sn26567]

Brussels Airlines is codesharing with Hainan on Beijing flights, but is forbidden by Mutti Lufty to codeshare on the Shanghai flights and probably on the future Shenzhen flights. I read in De Tijd: "De Duitsers willen dat Belgen via Frankfurt naar China vliegen." ("The Germans want the Belgians to fly to China via Frankfurt")

Are the Lufthansa managers stupid? The Belgians will prefer a non-stop flight with Hainan to a one-stop flight via Frankfurt, and if the flights are not codeshared, the LH group will lose the 5% commission and certainly not cashing 100% via FRA.

And if LH wants to repatriate SN long-haul flights to FRA, Belgians will fly to NYC with United or Delta, to Canada with Air Canada or Air Transat, to Africa with Air France via Paris or KLM via Amsterdam.

No, really, is it possible to be that stupid?

[Flanker3]

The writing was on the wall a long time ago.
Gustin being thanked for his services and SN gradually becoming EW is just part of the process.
As I've said before, it's only a matter of time before Africa flights will be moved to FRA or perhaps DUS, who knows. Then the restructuring and the tears will follow.

I must say that Gustin was not a good manager in the beginning, but that he learned a lot along the way.
The way he managed to stand against FR in BRU can be applauded, even though several factors did play in his favor, such as cheap oil.

The hybrid model is not a failure, but IMO not well executed. The difference between the products is marginal and mainly virtual. A good premium product would have worked much better.

EW will fail. I've predicted EY's strategic failure with its European subsidiaries long before it happened, DY's ridiculous business model going no-where and strangling them financially, FR becoming a high fares airline, and I can tell you what will lead to EW's death in a few years: shear incompetence.
EW is a lot like Norwegian. It has no focus, no network and no apealing business model. It hasn't made any profits in years and gaining market share seems to be more important than establishing a sustainable and profitable business model.
People who do fly EW do so out of a lack of options, not out of choice. Fares are high, the website not user friendly.
Give it 2-3 more years, and Mr. Spohr will be thanked for his services after EW fails to reach profitability and EW will be downsized to become LH's 3rd hub network out of DUS.

[sean1982]

One can't have growth without some form of change from time to time, and yes, maybe some refocussing may be appropriate too after all the commercial reorientation and rapid growth they saw over the past few years, because when you have become a company who effectively needs to be everything to everybody, everywhere and all the time, you risk being second choice behind the market leader in each of the market segments you target. It's a comment I've made in relation to another large (foreign) airline operating from Belgium in the past too, havent I, Sean?

You’re changing opinions way to many times. What you are giving here would be a perfect definition of what eurowings is. Everything and nothing, trying to appeal to everyone, but not convincing anyone. It’s a project bound to fail, but by the time it will happen SN will have disappeared together with all of their intellectual assets as they are fully owned by the holding in LH hands and BRU will be left without a home carrier once again (hence my post of the very wrong decision for BRU to put all their eggs in the basket of a struggling airline). This scenario is what I have feared for a long time and was very vocal about. I told you so would be way to easy to say to everyone who mocked me every single time.

A strong support for TUI,air Belgium and VLM would be a good start. (And before you start, yes TUI has a German head company as well, however having stood close to the airline for about 8 years, all decision power strongly remains with TUB as long as they can justify it and the figures make sense)