Brussels region noise regulation

[flightlover]

Don't be ridiculous. Flanders can't profit the aura and the economics of Brussels without giving some back. The airport exists because of brussels, never forget that.

Same goes the other way round. When the airport is gone it will not take to long for the EU, NATO and headquarters to say goodbye to Brussels.

[lumumba]

Don't be ridiculous. Flanders can't profit the aura and the economics of Brussels without giving some back. The airport exists because of brussels, never forget that.

Same goes the other way round. When the airport is gone it will not take to long for the EU, NATO and headquarters to say goodbye to Brussels.
[/quote]

But the airport will never leave this is ridiculous it will be close at night and maybe smaller but that's the worst case scenario...

I think we have to stop reacting black or white let's not be like the some politicians let's be constructive....

[nordikcam]

In La Libre today an interview of Brussels Minister Van Engel

http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/guy ... 98154910cd

The Minister spoke of moving back the airport to 1,800 meters ... and that 800 meters have already been expropriated ... is he talking about the lengthening of the runway by talking back to the airport? And what would it be?
But it should talk about square meters and not meters ... that does not make much sense!
Could it be the 25L runway East direction ? Thx

[flightlover]

But the airport will never leave this is ridiculous it will be close at night and maybe smaller but that's the worst case scenario...

Ever wondered how much noise the Brussels region registered? It's a map of 2006 but Look at it:

http://www.leefmilieu.brussels/sites/de ... n_p_fr.pdf
for the night

http://www.leefmilieu.brussels/sites/de ... lden_p.pdf
day and night?

Now compare that to a comparing list of noiselevels:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geluidsniveau

The only way it can disturb you is when you are outside or living in a uninsulated house. Ok you will not be able to sleep with an open window, but I would advice anyone living in a city centre not to sleep with open windows.

When I was living next to an iron railroad bridge with heavy and old diesel engines thundering by I still could sleep with an open window. Only thing that woke me up was the high sharp pitched noise when they used their brakes. Or when they did heavy maintenance on the track.
And coincidental one of the flightpaths into ANR was also over our house. Hardly ever noticed planes coming over when inside. And that house was not insulated.

And before you imply me being deaf, I'm not. Last example of that: Me asking the receptionist of a hotel if the laundry room was situated near my room (underneath to be precise) and her surprised asking me if it bothered me because she never heard that question before.

[Crosswind]

All those who live in Brussels, regardless of the location, do not work from 8AM to 17PM... And those guys have the right to get a decent sound environment. Certainly if they paid for that kind of tranquility.

Flanders need Brussels as well as the opposite, not to mention Wallonia. I don't believe on an open war between parties. Too much to lose for all involved... There will be adaptations, less noise for Brussels for sure, a little more for flanders. And that's it.

Over and let's fly.

[Passenger]

Some people have referred to the night curfews at Heathrow and Frankfurt. At LHR, there is only a night curfew for scheduled flights between 23h00 and 04h30. Non-scheduled flights are allowed at night, though with a very severe limitation. Same for flights between 04h30-06h00:
http://www.heathrow.com/noise/heathrow- ... ht-flights

Frankfurt has a night curfew 23h00-05h00, and FRA also has a tariff that penalizes noisy aircraft during late evening and early morning:
http://www.fraport.com/content/fraport/ ... irport.pdf

The noise regulations from the Brussels Government implement a night curfew 23h00-07h00. And let’s not forget: with the Brussels Government noise regulation, even during daytime a 747-400F will be fined when taking off over Brussels.

[sn-remember]

Frankfurt has a night curfew 23h00-05h00, and FRA also has a tariff that penalizes noisy aircraft during late evening and early morning:
The noise regulations from the Brussels Government implement a night curfew 23h00-07h00. And let’s not forget: with the Brussels Government noise regulation, even during daytime a 747-400F will be fined when taking off over Brussels.

23-07 curfew is stupid and will not happen.
FRA although 12 kms distant from the city center is located SW of the city but in a less dense urban zone.
However I checked for other full fledged urban airports and guess what ? There are some night flight trafic taking place, plenty in LAS, quite some in MEX and several in LIS.
You can argue that Vegas is the city of nightbirds, Mexico is not set so much on noise nuisance legislation and Lisboa, well it seems they have a curfew between 24.00 and 05.00 however one or two scheduled flights arrive or depart in betwwen. You don't have so many flights between 05 and 06 anyways ...
Ideally bru might take example on lis, in practice on fra ?

[luchtzak]

This topic has become a real minefield for our moderators.

Please continue using the report a post button.

Please try to discuss in a constructive manner.

[Crosswind]

Back to topic : best option would be to spread the noise according the population density, in term of percentage, weighted by the benefits each region takes from the airport. So simple. Would'nt it ?

[lumumba]

Back to topic : best option would be to spread the noise according the population density, in term of percentage, weighted by the benefits each region takes from the airport. So simple. Would'nt it ?

I'm agree also I think that stretching the 25L to the north would be wise to spread the noise.

[Crosswind]

Stretching the 25L to the north east is that correct?

More to the East. Could be a nice solution. But not the solely...

[lumumba]

Stretching the 25L to the north east is that correct?

More to the East. Could be a nice solution. But not the solely...

What do you mean?

[Crosswind]

Simply, I mean we could afford to keep all of the actual infrastructures by spreading DEP and ARR according the benefits for each other, the risks, the noise, the money. Of course, in an ideal world, we would immediately start a move to a less inhabited region. But it has a cost in the material world. Sofar, why not to start with a risk and benefit real evaluation ?

[jan_olieslagers]

@Crosswind, that has been tried for several decades now. Actually all the misery started when one infamous minister started that idea. "spreidingsplan", do you remember? It will always be "we want the good things of the airport (jobs, mobility), let the others have the noise".

[Crosswind]

Simply, I mean we could afford to keep all of the actual infrastructures by spreading DEP and ARR according the benefits for each other, the risks, the noise, the money. Of course, in an ideal world, we would immediately start a move to a less inhabited region. But it has a cost in the material world. Sofar, why not to start with a risk and benefit real evaluation ?

[luchtzak]

Avoid politics!

Be friendly!

[Crosswind]

I'm convinced there is a real possibility to find a balance by scrupulously evaluating the economical benefits among the three regions, this beeing a base in vue to weight the spreading all around. First, establish how many people from a specific region should receive so many %. Then spread again inside that groupes to make the balance.

[jan_olieslagers]

OK, I'll try again:

@Crosswind, that has been tried and it failed. Worse, all the misery started with the "spreidingsplan" which claimed exactly that intention.

[Crosswind]

Ok, but what can we do except to find a solution ? Mine looks balanced. We just need goodwill from either part.

[jan_olieslagers]

Says it all.