Thomas Cook Airlines Belgium in 2017

[luchtzak]

Thomas Cook dreigt met vertrek uit Zaventem

http://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170203_ ... rce=google

Thomas Cook Airlines zegt zelfs als eerste maatschappij openlijk dat ze overweegt uit Zaventem te vertrekken. “Wij zijn alle pistes aan het onderzoeken, waaronder ook een totaal vertrek uit Zaventem”, zegt woordvoerder Koen van den Bosch. “Onze raad van bestuur is erg ongerust. Mochten we een deel of het geheel van onze operaties uit Zaventem verhuizen, dan zou het buiten België zijn.”

I think this could be a good idea to put all the non transit flight to regional airport this could already decrease the total trafic without hurting it.

And than you stop the night flights and I'm sure you can get to an agreement with Brussels Gewest.

Regional airports? The article clearly says: leaving Belgium...

[lumumba]

Thomas Cook dreigt met vertrek uit Zaventem

http://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170203_ ... rce=google

Thomas Cook Airlines zegt zelfs als eerste maatschappij openlijk dat ze overweegt uit Zaventem te vertrekken. “Wij zijn alle pistes aan het onderzoeken, waaronder ook een totaal vertrek uit Zaventem”, zegt woordvoerder Koen van den Bosch. “Onze raad van bestuur is erg ongerust. Mochten we een deel of het geheel van onze operaties uit Zaventem verhuizen, dan zou het buiten België zijn.”

I think this could be a good idea to put all the non transit flight to regional airport this could already decrease the total trafic without hurting it.

And than you stop the night flights and I'm sure you can get to an agreement with Brussels Gewest.

Regional airports? The article clearly says: leaving Belgium...

But it's a charter company so if they leave the market is still there somebody else will take it over...

[Atlantis]

JESUS!!! People, grow up here. "it's a charter company, any body else can take there place", what a stupid remark is this!!!!!!
"Replace them to regional airports and Brussels will be happy"..... and do you really think that around those regional airports will no protest at all????? Do you know how many complaints there were after 22nd March 2016 when SN, Tui replaced some of their activities to Antwerp airport????

For most of the people on this forum is aviation just a hobby and most of them don't know how aviation really works but this is a very heavy situation behind the scenes!!!!!

If you don't know what is going on or you don't have any first hand information, please keep those rediculous remarks inside

[lumumba]

JESUS!!! People, grow up here. "it's a charter company, any body else can take there place", what a stupid remark is this!!!!!!
"Replace them to regional airports and Brussels will be happy"..... and do you really think that around those regional airports will no protest at all????? Do you know how many complaints there were after 22nd March 2016 when SN, Tui replaced some of their activities to Antwerp airport????

For most of the people on this forum is aviation just a hobby and most of them don't know how aviation really works but this is a very heavy situation behind the scenes!!!!!

If you don't know what is going on or you don't have any first hand information, please keep those rediculous remarks inside

Hey Atlantis

What I meant with charter is that Brussels Airport will not loose passengers if they leave I mean to Paris or other Airports out of Belgium nobody will take is car to drive to Amsterdam to take there plane to Djerba for example.

Now for the other point it's a forum and it free mister Trump so maybe I'm not in the airline business but I love it and on the other hand I live in Brussels and I have my opinion.

And I think that if you move the point to point airliners it could be a good idea so there is less traffic in Brussels
without suffering from it.

Liege and Charleroi also Oostende could work very fine.

I grew up in Antwerp I'm from there and yes Deurne can not grow it has to close in my opinion it's also in the city.
By the way it was discussed in the past to close it.

So I repeat it's a free forum....

[RoMax]

I assume lumumba's comment was with the best intentions, but indeed...it wouldn't be the case. New operators wouldn't even consider it, if they can't properly operate as from 6am and even during the day can face fines when operating their heavy loaded charters to the south (or whereever). Other current BRU-based operators taking it over (like SN for example), than it's just SN that gets the fines. It would make such operations less favourable, increasing prices, naturally decreasing market demand.
Charter or not, cargo or not, brand new next generation aircraft or not, everyone can and will be impacted by this incredibly stupdid decisions taken by Brussels... Simply unbelievable that even after 22/3 Brussels can be so ignorant about the necessity of BRU as a strong thriving O&D and transfer hub (both strenghtening each other) for both pax and cargo. They even ignore the importance of the airport in local Brussels-based employment...I mean, can people really be so stupid???

LGG and OST are not the solution, these airports can only grow so far until getting the exact same problems, furthermore they are far from ideally located to serve Belgium as a whole. ANR is not even in the picture to take over a significant amount of traffic. And CRL...let's see how long that takes when traffic significantly grows there. Because contrary to BRU where traffic movements are substantially lower than 16-20 years ago, the people living underneath the flight paths of those airports didn't buy their houses there knowing how much traffic they would have to endure.

[lumumba]

I assume lumumba's comment was with the best intentions, but indeed...it wouldn't be the case. New operators wouldn't even consider it, if they can't properly operate as from 6am and even during the day can face fines when operating their heavy loaded charters to the south (or whereever). Other current BRU-based operators taking it over (like SN for example), than it's just SN that gets the fines. It would make such operations less favourable, increasing prices, naturally decreasing market demand.
Charter or not, cargo or not, brand new next generation aircraft or not, everyone can and will be impacted by this incredibly stupdid decisions taken by Brussels... Simply unbelievable that even after 22/3 Brussels can be so ignorant about the necessity of BRU as a strong thriving O&D and transfer hub (both strenghtening each other) for both pax and cargo. They even ignore the importance of the airport in local Brussels-based employment...I mean, can people really be so stupid???

I'm not so sure about that, Brussels Gewest is asking already a couple of years to discuss this.
When you live in Evere or Schaarbeek you feel it now for some it can be ok but not for everybody what I mean is that Brussels is in a very densely populated area.

So we have to think together what's possible or not but for that the minister of transport has to bring everybody on the table what he is not doing.

And believe me Dutch speaking or French speaking here in Brussels we are agree that not everything is possible.

I now Brussels Airport will suffer if we close it at night but frankly I don't see another solution Vlaams Brabant is also densely populated so they will also be affected.

But let be positive and let's hope Prime Minister Michel can start the discussion like I understand he will try to resolve it.

But my idea to move the charter flights to regional airports it's still a good idea for me.

[DIBO]

Do you know how many complaints there were after 22nd March 2016 when SN, Tui replaced some of their activities to Antwerp airport????

when the discussion is about an A320 operator, ANR is totally irrelevant. ANR is an airport with a city built around it (in that order), so of course the environmental balance is not comparable with other regional airports!

I grew up in Antwerp I'm from there and yes Deurne can not grow it has to close in my opinion it's also in the city.

The movements decrease year by year, but pax increase. With CS100 /E190 E2's (moderate) growth in daytime operations and reduced environmental impact can go hand in hand. But his is not the topic to discuss this further....

[ironspan]

Sorry, pushed the wrong button.
Just wanted to react to 'lumumba' with his remark to close ANR.
This is exactly what the (small) anti-group wants to achieve: that even aviation lovers start to take about closing the airport.
I am not going to repeat that the airport was there first, we have to consider today's reality.
But ANR has a specific role to play (never it was and will be the plan to start operations like in CRL with Ryanair or similar), it is a regional airport focusing on business flights connections, general aviation (private jets) and flights to selective vacation destinations with 120-seaters, like DIBO correctly indicated. A320 operations are not possible, and I do not think that there will be ever a political platform to extend the RW to 2000meters to allow these aircraft to operate.
So, 'lumumba', we should protect what we have, and not always follow the 'call of the Green' blindly. We are loosing enough business to other countries because of our immensely complex approval processes, let's defend finally together our economical basics. I am a big fan of ANR, but at the same time I am also disgusted with the political game played around BRU, this has nothing to do with aviation, only with votes. I wonder how many people from Brussels are REALLY affected, how many lay awake between 6 and 7 every morning? You?

[crew1990]

I don't think the plan for TCW is to move from BRU, I think they are just trying to put some pressure against those fines from the Brussels Region

[JAF737]

I don't think the plan for TCW is to move from BRU, I think they are just trying to put some pressure against those fines from the Brussels Region

Well I hope TCW has some plans... because continuing this way won't lead them to anywhere!

And erm, indeed, TCW would probably be a big loss for Brussels Airport for... parking fees?

[N77014]

Flew with them yesterday to Hurghada ( OO-TCW ), full plane, good service, correct seating thanks to the slim seats. Although it was probably its first flight of the day ( plane was already in BRU when we arrived 2 hours before flight ), we had to wait in the bus in front of the plane for 15 minutes due to refueling still going on. Opportunity to enhance the operations and customer experience by anticipating and begin this process earlier ? I wish them good luck anyhow !

[tangolima]

we had to wait in the bus in front of the plane for 15 minutes due to refueling still going on. Opportunity to enhance the operations and customer experience by anticipating and begin this process earlier ?

Hello

This seems more like a handling issue and has not much to do with Thomas Cook Airlines itself.
Maybe the handling agent should have contacted his colleagues at the gate and say ''wait with bringing them since we are still not finished..''

Greetings,

Well I hope TCW has some plans... because continuing this way won't lead them to anywhere!

And erm, indeed, TCW would probably be a big loss for Brussels Airport for... parking fees?

Hello,

Stupid reaction in my eyes. But shows maybe the more classy way of Thomas Cook compared to the ''marginalen'' / ''plebs'' of JAF. Since that is still how I see it. Classy people travel TCAB and the category i mentioned earlier and go once a year on a holiday to some cheap ass resort take JAF with the 20 years-old cabin crews....

Ok now back to more professional talk: You are working for JAF, so you see how it is still a fight between TCAB & JAF. Typical Belgium! Why not work together. Last year I booked TUI NL (Still ArkeFly at that time) and flew Miami Air B737 on the first leg (summer lease) and Transavia B737 on the way back. So why not better work with each other. I know there was a time TCAB leasing in JAF A/C and seldom vice versa. Or TCAB selling tickets on the JAF long hauls. Now they sell it via FRA etc.

Greetings,

[JAF737]

@tangolima...

I was just saying making pressure with 4 aircrafts grounded most of the time (even during busy holiday week-ends) doesn't make any sense. You can't ignore the fact that their situation is dramatic.

I have friends working for them and wish them all the best for their future. And no, I have absolutely nothing against Thomas Cook or ANY other airline/project within Belgium. JAF and TCW worked together in the past and I find this fantastic, and I do hope it will happen again.

Allow me to ignore the rest of your (high level...) comments.

[tangolima]

@tangolima...

I was just saying making pressure with 4 aircrafts grounded most of the time (even during busy holiday week-ends) doesn't make any sense. You can't ignore the fact that their situation is dramatic.

I have friends working for them and wish them all the best for their future. And no, I have absolutely nothing against Thomas Cook or ANY other airline/project within Belgium. JAF and TCW worked together in the past and I find this fantastic, and I do hope it will happen again.

Allow me to ignore the rest of your (high level...) comments.

And these 4 A/C on the ground I agree 100% with you JAF737 BUT like i said in some post earliers. They stopped the AdHoc market some years ago (in that time they were flying the Red Devils, different orchestra's etc.) this gives an airine at least some cashflow. So why not start it again? And for this I praise JAF since they did some ACMI work for Carpatair some weeks ago. With 4 A/C on the ground TCAB had also could do this job, but if you do not have the department/interest for it.

Regarding working together again, I am 100% behind you!

[crew1990]

Why would JAF try to save it's direct competitor, if Thomas Cook stop, TUI Fly would be the only Belgian "Holiday" Airline.

Also about Carpatair, why would TUI take Thomas Cook Airlines if Carpatair was cheaper. Aviation is business, not charity.

[tangolima]

Why would JAF try to save it's direct competitor, if Thomas Cook stop, TUI Fly would be the only Belgian "Holiday" Airline.

Also about Carpatair, why would TUI take Thomas Cook Airlines if Carpatair was cheaper. Aviation is business, not charity.

I do not say ''save'' Thomas Cook. But sometimes when TCAB was short on A/C they hired a TUI A/C and vice versa or TCAB selling tickets on the long haul fleet of JAF etc.

And Carpat took TUI... A Fokker100 is mostly cheaper as an A320. Aviation is logic thinking

[iMorris]

But shows maybe the more classy way of Thomas Cook compared to the ''marginalen'' / ''plebs'' of JAF. Since that is still how I see it. Classy people travel TCAB and the category i mentioned earlier and go once a year on a holiday to some cheap ass resort take JAF with the 20 years-old cabin crews....

Seriously?

[sn26567]

But shows maybe the more classy way of Thomas Cook compared to the ''marginalen'' / ''plebs'' of JAF. Since that is still how I see it. Classy people travel TCAB and the category i mentioned earlier and go once a year on a holiday to some cheap ass resort take JAF with the 20 years-old cabin crews....

Seriously?

Hey, even moderators can have a personal opinion, even if most of the time they try to hide it and remain neutral

[lumumba]

But shows maybe the more classy way of Thomas Cook compared to the ''marginalen'' / ''plebs'' of JAF. Since that is still how I see it. Classy people travel TCAB and the category i mentioned earlier and go once a year on a holiday to some cheap ass resort take JAF with the 20 years-old cabin crews....

Seriously?

Do not pay attention it's maybe true but the beautify young people of TUI are going together with the beautify young fleet of TUI.
The same is true in the other way for TC...

[pilot_gent]

Also about Carpatair, why would TUI take Thomas Cook Airlines if Carpatair was cheaper. Aviation is business, not charity.

Actually, when I was still with TUI (some years ago ) there was some kind of agreement. If I remember well, the checklist when needing a subcharter in JAF was to look for airlines in this order of priority:
1. other TUI airline
2. Belgian airline
3. other EU airline