Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

[sean1982]

Which planet are you coming from, Poiu? Haven't you noticed that LCC pax usually get cheaper tickets than e.g. "legacy airlines" pax?

Ticket price has nothing to do with it, nor the planet I am coming from. A tip though: there are no high horses on my planet.

Conti- at the moment the governement subsidises SN through the airport charges.

The government has nothing to do with the airport charges imho. And when an LCC parks its planes away from the pier, it pays a lower charge to BRU, and this can be transfered to the pax as a lower fare ( I'm quite sure you could get this info from the horse's mouth if you like ).

No they don't! Ryanair pays as much in passenger charges as SN does!

[lumumba]

Ticket price has nothing to do with it, nor the planet I am coming from. A tip though: there are no high horses on my planet.

Conti- at the moment the governement subsidises SN through the airport charges.

The government has nothing to do with the airport charges imho. And when an LCC parks its planes away from the pier, it pays a lower charge to BRU, and this can be transfered to the pax as a lower fare ( I'm quite sure you could get this info from the horse's mouth if you like ).

No they don't! Ryanair pays as much in passenger charges as SN does!

I didn't now that I realy through that Ryanair was paying less for not using the bridges...
That's not fear why can the other airlines using the bridges and Ryanair not!!!!

[flightlover]

I didn't now that I realy through that Ryanair was paying less for not using the bridges...
That's not fear why can the other airlines using the bridges and Ryanair not!!!!

If they choose to operate like they do, that is up to them. Ryanair chooses most of the time not to use the airbridges as that expedites the boarding process.
They also received some investments into their operations: the covered walkways and passenger holding areas on tarmac. (another temporary 'permanent' infrastructure)
And are Easyjet and Ryanair paying for the security agent that is stationed at those stands almost all day long?

[sean1982]

I didn't now that I realy through that Ryanair was paying less for not using the bridges...
That's not fear why can the other airlines using the bridges and Ryanair not!!!!

If they choose to operate like they do, that is up to them. Ryanair chooses most of the time not to use the airbridges as that expedites the boarding process.
They also received some investments into their operations: the covered walkways and passenger holding areas on tarmac. (another temporary 'permanent' infrastructure)
And are Easyjet and Ryanair paying for the security agent that is stationed at those stands almost all day long?

They pay as much as SN is paying for all those people moving airbridges to and from their planes all day long. I guess one security person is not too much to ask for? In fact, it aint them who asked it, the airport decided that themselves.

[flightlover]

I think they where wright to do so if you read some LCC pax even think it is a good idea to chase a plane that is taxiing...

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/959/Bizar/arti ... rmac.dhtml

[Homo Aeroportus]

No they don't! Ryanair pays as much in passenger charges as SN does!

Nice phrasing as usual with you Sean.
Let me complete it.

FR pays as much as SN for the services they use.

All positions on Apron 1 North and South (A Pier), all positions on Apron 2 North and South (B Pier) and all positions on Apron 60 (West Apron, in front of DHL) are equipped with both Ground Power and PCA (Pre Conditioned Air).
All Stands used by the LoCo (120 through 138) do NOT have these facilities.

Aircraft parked at A Pier, B Pier and on Apron 60 MUST pay the charge for using Gnd Pwr and PCA.

Conclusion : FR does NOT pay the same total passenger charges as SN because they don't use the same services.

For info, Gnd Pwr + PCA are charged 30.48€/hour for aircraft with a certified seating capacity of up to 160, and 48.36€/h for up to 239 seats.
For info, there is no charge for using a boarding bridge since 2011.
For info, there is a 0.27€ bussing charge applied to all departing Pax.

There is no obligation to listen to the BRU/SN bashing Propaganda Abteilung on the subject.
Please check factual information from the source : http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... iffs1604v2

H.A.

[convair]

Thank you for putting things straight Homo Aeroportus. Too many lies and half-truths are used on this forum to try and hide sheer ignorance or even deceit.

[sean1982]

No they don't! Ryanair pays as much in passenger charges as SN does!

Nice phrasing as usual with you Sean.
Let me complete it.

FR pays as much as SN for the services they use.

All positions on Apron 1 North and South (A Pier), all positions on Apron 2 North and South (B Pier) and all positions on Apron 60 (West Apron, in front of DHL) are equipped with both Ground Power and PCA (Pre Conditioned Air).
All Stands used by the LoCo (120 through 138) do NOT have these facilities.

Aircraft parked at A Pier, B Pier and on Apron 60 MUST pay the charge for using Gnd Pwr and PCA.

Conclusion : FR does NOT pay the same total passenger charges as SN because they don't use the same services.

For info, Gnd Pwr + PCA are charged 30.48€/hour for aircraft with a certified seating capacity of up to 160, and 48.36€/h for up to 239 seats.
For info, there is no charge for using a boarding bridge since 2011.
For info, there is a 0.27€ bussing charge applied to all departing Pax.

There is no obligation to listen to the BRU/SN bashing Propaganda Abteilung on the subject.
Please check factual information from the source : http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... iffs1604v2

H.A.

So Ryanair and esay get these mobile groundpower units for free at their stand? As long as I operated for them we ALWAYS had groundpower available at our stand as it is a Ryanair SOP to be on GPU as long as possible. SO who is telling the half lies here?

[flightlover]

So Ryanair and esay get these mobile groundpower units for free at their stand? As long as I operated for them we ALWAYS had groundpower available at our stand as it is a Ryanair SOP to be on GPU as long as possible. SO who is telling the half lies here?

No they get them supplied by GPU's from AP or SP. They are not supplied by the airport itself, and therefore it might be cheaper. And as there is no conditioned air foreseen they are exempted from paying for that service.

[convair]

So Ryanair and esay get these mobile groundpower units for free at their stand? As long as I operated for them we ALWAYS had groundpower available at our stand as it is a Ryanair SOP to be on GPU as long as possible. SO who is telling the half lies here?

We now have the answer thanks also to flightlover:

No they get them supplied by GPU's from AP or SP. They are not supplied by the airport itself, and therefore it might be cheaper. And as there is no conditioned air foreseen they are exempted from paying for that service.

It is the more disappointing, Sean, since you seem to know what you're talking about.......most of the time.

[sean1982]

So Ryanair and esay get these mobile groundpower units for free at their stand? As long as I operated for them we ALWAYS had groundpower available at our stand as it is a Ryanair SOP to be on GPU as long as possible. SO who is telling the half lies here?

No they get them supplied by GPU's from AP or SP. They are not supplied by the airport itself, and therefore it might be cheaper. And as there is no conditioned air foreseen they are exempted from paying for that service.

Well swissport isnt given them for free. They MIGHT be cheaper. How much? We dont know. And if we calculate the use of the GPU and PCA at the airbridge per pax per hour on A320, SN would pay more indeed. The wopping amount of .... 0,27€

[Poiu]

Thank you for putting things straight Homo Aeroportus. Too many lies and half-truths are used on this forum to try and hide sheer ignorance or even deceit.

Don't forget the 20 million state aid, which are given to SN, JAF and HQ, via a discount on airport charges!

[Homo Aeroportus]

...
Well swissport isnt given them for free. They MIGHT be cheaper. How much? We dont know. And if we calculate the use of the GPU and PCA at the airbridge per pax per hour on A320, SN would pay more indeed. The wopping amount of .... 0,27€

Interesting conclusion.

Cost item "A", GndPwr + PCA at PBB : known factor communicated by BRU
Cost item "B", GPU on remote stand : "... How much? We dont know."

But you claim to KNOW that the difference between A and B is 0.27€

I must have missed something. Kindly explain.

H.A.

[Conti764]

I didn't now that I realy through that Ryanair was paying less for not using the bridges...
That's not fear why can the other airlines using the bridges and Ryanair not!!!!

If they choose to operate like they do, that is up to them. Ryanair chooses most of the time not to use the airbridges as that expedites the boarding process.
They also received some investments into their operations: the covered walkways and passenger holding areas on tarmac. (another temporary 'permanent' infrastructure)
And are Easyjet and Ryanair paying for the security agent that is stationed at those stands almost all day long?

They pay as much as SN is paying for all those people moving airbridges to and from their planes all day long. I guess one security person is not too much to ask for? In fact, it aint them who asked it, the airport decided that themselves.

Isn't it just the loadmaster who puts the airbridge in position, thus also present at all FR flights?

[Inquirer]

No they don't! Ryanair pays as much in passenger charges as SN does!

Nice phrasing as usual with you Sean.
Let me complete it.

FR pays as much as SN for the services they use.

All positions on Apron 1 North and South (A Pier), all positions on Apron 2 North and South (B Pier) and all positions on Apron 60 (West Apron, in front of DHL) are equipped with both Ground Power and PCA (Pre Conditioned Air).
All Stands used by the LoCo (120 through 138) do NOT have these facilities.

Aircraft parked at A Pier, B Pier and on Apron 60 MUST pay the charge for using Gnd Pwr and PCA.

Conclusion : FR does NOT pay the same total passenger charges as SN because they don't use the same services.

For info, Gnd Pwr + PCA are charged 30.48€/hour for aircraft with a certified seating capacity of up to 160, and 48.36€/h for up to 239 seats.
For info, there is no charge for using a boarding bridge since 2011.
For info, there is a 0.27€ bussing charge applied to all departing Pax.

There is no obligation to listen to the BRU/SN bashing Propaganda Abteilung on the subject.
Please check factual information from the source : http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... iffs1604v2

H.A.

Now that's for sure an interesting post, H.A.
So the conclusion is Ryanair are not paying the same charges as Brussels Airlines do, unlike Sean had explicitly claimed, and this because they deliberately chose to downgrade the service levels offered to them by the airport!

Not entirely surprising in fact: airlines which compete solely on price will feel the need to make their ground operations less expensive than others at the same airport -even if it means less comfortable for their passengers- because they need it to differentiate on price in support of their business model.

From the subsequent comments to your post, I understand those airlines get their electricity from some external cart provided to them by their own handler rather than from the more expensive terminal infrastructure itself, but how do they air condition their plane whenever it's on the ground then?
That hasn't been elaborated yet.

Anyway, all of the above shows why it's a sound business driven decision for the airport to move them out from where they are parked now on the tarmac to make way for an extended A Pier if demand for such is there, so those customers who are willing to use (and contrary to what Sean pretended, DO pay extra for) the full range of ground services offered by the airport, can do so unhindered: it's nothing but a logical investment in additional infrastructure which significantly increases the airport's future revenues as well as customer satisfaction levels, even if it is only of use to the high end-of-market customers.

[flightlover]

There is no airco supplied to any Ryanair or Easy plane at the stands. They could opt to have that supplied also, but that would prolong the turn-around time by a few minutes. So airco is only on when the engines are running. That's why you sometimes get complaints by half baked pax when they have to wait in the plane with the doors closed

[Sonho1985]

It is always a loadmaster/red cap from either Aviapartner or Swissport who puts the bridge in position, not someone from BIAC.

Ryanair prefers boarding without using bridges so they can use the front AND back doors to win some time.

[Poiu]

There is no airco supplied to any Ryanair or Easy plane at the stands. They could opt to have that supplied also, but that would prolong the turn-around time by a few minutes. So airco is only on when the engines are running. That's why you sometimes get complaints by half baked pax when they have to wait in the plane with the doors closed

Not correct!
Airco is provided also by the APU, which does a much better job than a ground unit.
As both can not be used together, it is often cooler in aircraft on remote stands.

[sean1982]

...
Well swissport isnt given them for free. They MIGHT be cheaper. How much? We dont know. And if we calculate the use of the GPU and PCA at the airbridge per pax per hour on A320, SN would pay more indeed. The wopping amount of .... 0,27€

Interesting conclusion.

Cost item "A", GndPwr + PCA at PBB : known factor communicated by BRU
Cost item "B", GPU on remote stand : "... How much? We dont know."

But you claim to KNOW that the difference between A and B is 0.27€

I must have missed something. Kindly explain.

H.A.

Dont twist my words please. If the mobile WOULD be free (which it isnt) its 0,27€ per pax per hour. So its most probably less. How much? I dont know

[sean1982]

No they don't! Ryanair pays as much in passenger charges as SN does!

Nice phrasing as usual with you Sean.
Let me complete it.

FR pays as much as SN for the services they use.

All positions on Apron 1 North and South (A Pier), all positions on Apron 2 North and South (B Pier) and all positions on Apron 60 (West Apron, in front of DHL) are equipped with both Ground Power and PCA (Pre Conditioned Air).
All Stands used by the LoCo (120 through 138) do NOT have these facilities.

Aircraft parked at A Pier, B Pier and on Apron 60 MUST pay the charge for using Gnd Pwr and PCA.

Conclusion : FR does NOT pay the same total passenger charges as SN because they don't use the same services.

For info, Gnd Pwr + PCA are charged 30.48€/hour for aircraft with a certified seating capacity of up to 160, and 48.36€/h for up to 239 seats.
For info, there is no charge for using a boarding bridge since 2011.
For info, there is a 0.27€ bussing charge applied to all departing Pax.

There is no obligation to listen to the BRU/SN bashing Propaganda Abteilung on the subject.
Please check factual information from the source : http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/cf/res ... iffs1604v2

H.A.

Now that's for sure an interesting post, H.A.
So the conclusion is Ryanair are not paying the same charges as Brussels Airlines do, unlike Sean had explicitly claimed, and this because they deliberately chose to downgrade the service levels offered to them by the airport!

Not entirely surprising in fact: airlines which compete solely on price will feel the need to make their ground operations less expensive than others at the same airport -even if it means less comfortable for their passengers- because they need it to differentiate on price in support of their business model.

From the subsequent comments to your post, I understand those airlines get their electricity from some external cart provided to them by their own handler rather than from the more expensive terminal infrastructure itself, but how do they air condition their plane whenever it's on the ground then?
That hasn't been elaborated yet.

Anyway, all of the above shows why it's a sound business driven decision for the airport to move them out from where they are parked now on the tarmac to make way for an extended A Pier if demand for such is there, so those customers who are willing to use (and contrary to what Sean pretended, DO pay extra for) the full range of ground services offered by the airport, can do so unhindered: it's nothing but a logical investment in additional infrastructure which significantly increases the airport's future revenues as well as customer satisfaction levels, even if it is only of use to the high end-of-market customers.

Sure inquirer, what a longwinded post to claim BRU can fund a building by charging SN 45€ an hour more for an A320. Can you get me the contractor's number? He can build me a house too!