Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

[Jetter]

And Eurowings to Africa, that would be the best joke of the year, no, of the century!

I think you're right, they should brand the flights to Africa 'AfricaWings' imo.

[sean1982]

And they managed to stop Ryanair from growing in Brussels and Charleroi. Will Eurowings Belgium will be able to maintain this? I doubt that Spohr thinks they will.

Lol
http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/48 ... in-belgium

De truuk met de duif. Calculate a market share for Belgium and say that's your market share for Brussels. Some press will believe it.

Fact: Ryanair at Brussels Airport, 2015: 1,8 mio passengers.
Fact: Brussels Airport, 2015: 23.460.018 passengers.
Thus: market share for Ryanair at Brussels Airport for 2015 was 7,67%.

Conclusion: de duif is dood. A 7,67% market share at Brussels Airport is bad after the initial announcement that they would take over Brussels Airport from Brussels Airlines. Weren't the quotes from O'Leary to Brussels Airlines: "get lost... move to another airport... you're too small to compete to us at Brussels... We'll crush you if you start a price war..."

(the 10% increase at Charleroi for 2015 then is just a troostprijs)

(edited: number of passengers Brussels Airport adjusted)

Rofl. Sabena also never considered CRL to be competition untill they were almost bankrupt.

Ali still applies

[Flanker2]

Looking at the macro-economic picture, I think that there are high risks out there for all airlines including SN.
Monte Dei Paschi went down 20% today, the Italian government is considering recapitalising it which goes against EU rules. Then there are risks at Unicredit and Deutsche Bank which are behaving like banks on the verge of collapse.
Banks struggle to stay afloat in the current low interest environment.
So there are high risks exacerbted by the Brexit issue.
SN is quite exposed to the Italian economy and to the UK as well. I expect France to do pretty bad too, and this could hit its Africa market.

Looking at the micro's, SN seems to be recovering from the attacks.
They should be able to turn a marginal profit for the year, around 20 millions.
However, I don't doubt that if LH exercises its option, SN will as a whole be absorbed into Eurowings.
To LH, SN is a 100 million Euro project, while Eurowings is a billion Euro project to fight the LCC's and the ME3.
I think that with increasing presence of the ME3 in Africa, LH will be tempted to push its own brand there too, even if at the expense of SN.

The SN unions are keeping quiet, but it doesn't surprise me. The VLM unions were also very quiet and started complaining only after the bankruptcy was set in stone.
The unions won't do anything I'm afraid.


Honestly, for SN right now I'm more concerned by the broader economy than Eurowings.
If Deutsche Bank needs a bail-out, it's not only the Euro that's going to be put to the test, but the entire EU project. Even recently, Merkel has warned Italy that it could not bail-out the banks without breaching EU rules, but if the Italian banks go, Deutsche is next on the line and Germany can't afford to let Deutsche tank.
So Merkel would have to bail it out, leaving the Italians furious.
If there is a crisis around Deutsche, forget about any plans for LH to take SN over.


@passenger: I would suggest some humility on your part. You were wrong on VLM big time, and now you're all over SN/Eurowings.

@SN26657: What articles are you guys refering to? I thought that LH could exercise its option in September, so why October? Every month that we go forward, it seems that the exercise date goes back by a month as well.

[Boeing767copilot]

To LH, SN is a 100 million Euro project, while Eurowings is a billion Euro project to fight the LCC's and the ME3.

Are you kidding?

[sn26567]

Flanker, here is the article about Carsten Spohr and Eurowings : http://www.aero.de/news-24496/Spohr-Eur ... eitet.html

[brusselsairlinesfan]

With their Pax numbers still growing, can we expect the same Pax figures in 2016 vs 2015 (despite the march tragédies and conséquences?)?

[Flanker2]

I cant see any interest from IAG in the slightest. They are very much focussing on bringing costs down within their own operation and trying to get vuelling right. They will not be buying anyone soon.

I think that IAG is very well ready to take opportunities. They bought Aer Lingus for a whopping 1.35 billion Euro's. SN, which is about the same size but operates in more promising area's, could be had for 20% of that, if not less.

Lufty will never leave it s western flank open to IAG...

For them a standstill is absolutely perfect... under SN or EW...

Cheers

Stij

I don't think that Lufthansa really cares about its Western flank.
If they cared, they would have invested in their then subsidiary BMI, which was a lot more promising.

Lufthansa might start suffering at all levels because their CEO is obsessed with Eurowings.
Even their most stable unit LH Technik is stumbling.
The problem is that Eurowings is very ill-positioned to become a new "Easyjet".
Also, the execution of the project is very messy. Old aircraft, new aircraft, hubs West and East, some long haul. Bah, ugly.

In Vienna, Eurowings was supposed to support OS. First OS was supposed to operate for EW, but now, EW is operating for EW an even competing against OS... go figure.

EW's website is useless. Unusable.

Last but not least: Eurowings might well be a LCC, its high fares do not reflect its low cost nature.


As a conclusion: SN should stay far away from Eurowings. The day the next LH CEO decides to pull the plug on this ill-managed project, SN will go down the drain with it and nobody will understand what happened.

[Passenger]

Lufthansa might start suffering at all levels because their CEO is obsessed with Eurowings.

Spohr isn't obsessed by Eurowings at all. He only regards Eurowings as a tool for the Lufthansa Group to compete against LCC's. The only people that are obsessed with Eurowings are found on this forum.

[nordikcam]

Lufthansa might start suffering at all levels because their CEO is obsessed with Eurowings.

Spohr isn't obsessed by Eurowings at all. He only regards Eurowings as a tool for the Lufthansa Group to compete against LCC's. The only people that are obsessed with Eurowings are found on this forum.

Some on this Forum are probably scared of losing SN in Eurowings ... soulless , tasteless , nothing !

[Passenger]

Some on this Forum are probably scared of losing SN in Eurowings ... soulless , tasteless , nothing !

Ladies and gentlemen, wellcome on this Eurowings flight from Brussels to Kinshasa. Flying time will be 7 hours 52 minutes. Passengers in our Low Cost Business Class, please note that meals and drinks are not complimentary anymore.

No, I don't see it happen.

[Flanker2]

As a big SN fan yourself Passenger, aren't you worried that SN will disappear?
What good can come out of this for you, or for anyone for that matter?

[sean1982]

Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) gave a gloomy outlook for the key summer season and said it would focus on reducing costs after attacks in Europe deterred travellers from booking trips, creating price pressure for the German airline and its European rivals.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-luftha ... KKCN10D0E2

source: reuters

[sn26567]

Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) gave a gloomy outlook for the key summer season and said it would focus on reducing costs after attacks in Europe deterred travellers from booking trips, creating price pressure for the German airline and its European rivals.

See the full LH Group publication here: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufthan ... stability/

There is one sentence about Brussels Airlines: "... the cumulative earnings result from the holdings in SunExpress and Brussels Airlines showed a decline of 40 million euros."

Knowing that LH owns 50% of SunExpress and 45% of Brussels Airlines, one can estimate that the combined earnings of these two companies decreased by approximately 80 million euros in the first half of the year. Not surprising with the events in both Brussels and Turkey! But with the hope that the situation will improve in H2.

[Passenger]

It's not only Lufthansa suffering and other European airlines that are suffering a setback from intercontinental travel. As from 29th August, China Southern Airlines will reduce capacity on its daily Bejing-Amsterdam-Bejing from A380 to A330-300. Reason: the terrorist attacks and terrorism threats in France and Belgium cause that Chinese tourists travel less to Europe. And whilst the U.S.A. and Australia have softened visa requirements for Chinese tourists, they became more severe for them if they want a Schengen visa. Initial plans were to continue with the A380 till 30th October.

[sean1982]

It's not only Lufthansa suffering and other European airlines that are suffering a setback from intercontinental travel. As from 29th August, China Southern Airlines will reduce capacity on its daily Bejing-Amsterdam-Bejing from A380 to A330-300. Reason: the terrorist attacks and terrorism threats in France and Belgium cause that Chinese tourists travel less to Europe. And whilst the U.S.A. and Australia have softened visa requirements for Chinese tourists, they became more severe for them if they want a Schengen visa. Initial plans were to continue with the A380 till 30th October.

How does China southern tie in with the LH group and this topic?

[Passenger]

It's not only Lufthansa suffering and other European airlines that are suffering a setback from intercontinental travel. As from 29th August, China Southern Airlines will reduce capacity on its daily Bejing-Amsterdam-Bejing from A380 to A330-300. Reason: the terrorist attacks and terrorism threats in France and Belgium cause that Chinese tourists travel less to Europe. And whilst the U.S.A. and Australia have softened visa requirements for Chinese tourists, they became more severe for them if they want a Schengen visa. Initial plans were to continue with the A380 till 30th October.

How does China southern tie in with the LH group and this topic?

Because it's not only Lufthansa suffering and other European airlines that are suffering a setback from intercontinental travel. As from 29th August, China Southern Airlines will reduce capacity on its daily Bejing-Amsterdam-Bejing from A380 to A330-300. Reason: the terrorist attacks and terrorism threats in France and Belgium cause that Chinese tourists travel less to Europe. And whilst the U.S.A. and Australia have softened visa requirements for Chinese tourists, they became more severe for them if they want a Schengen visa. Initial plans were to continue with the A380 till 30th October.

[Boeing767copilot]

Eurowings posted a first-half EBIT loss of €89 million, deepened from a €22 million loss in the first half of 2015, a result attributable mainly to its ramp-up and project costs and to the challenging competitive environment.

[nordikcam]

Below an article I do not have the content. Maybe someone...

http://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviatio ... 9-3017.art

SN has kept its strenghts before march 22

[Bralo20]

Below an article I do not have the content. Maybe someone...

http://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviatio ... 9-3017.art

SN has kept its strenghts before march 22

The same article in Flemish: http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/archief/Bruss ... 20airlines

It actually doesn't say much about SN, it's more about BRU recovering after the attacks, BRU is still down a bit but they had the 2nd best July month.

About SN it says that they grew with 5,2%, that they remained stable with a 82,7% loadfactor despite increasing frequencies and adding destinations and that they grew to a 32,85% marketshare in BRU (up from a 30,21% marketshare).

So nothing new.

[Inquirer]

The same article in Flemish: http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/archief/Bruss ... 20airlines

I've checked both links, but the article in L'echo isn't the same at all, Bralo20: the article is a long interview with their CEO! I don't know if they will also publish it in De Tijd, but I hope so: it's worth reading for sure if you have access to their website(s).

A few interesting take-outs from the interview (according to me, at least):

* some 215 directly employed staff will be needed for the new flights to India

* Indian cabin crew will be used too on these flights (coming from Air India?)

* Nigeria is still on the agenda: it was not an 'or-or' decision to go for Bombay

* Works with Belgocontrol are under way to prioritize those flights which have importance for the hub

* "Boarding passes need to be send automatically to passengers, not simply reminders to self check-in"