Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by convair »

b720 wrote:It should be one brand, as Sean says. What I meant is that SN today is not a full service airline, apart from L.H.
C class within Europe is just to feed into L.H. Intra european pricing makes that obvious. SN does not offer the service Swiss and LH offer. It could fit as eurowings low cost.. With a premium for extras.
An important share of l/h business pax are connecting in BRU. These pax want to fly C on their feeder flights as well. Although they don't bring additional cash to SN on the feeder leg, they contribute to the l/f of the l/h flights. But I agree that SN should try to bring the level of its C class on European flights up to that of LX or LH.

Let's be pragmatic: If the current hybrid approach of SN is successful, let's continue it, and even spread it into the other "legacy" airlines of the LH group. What's the need to change the name of a successful operation? I know it's an obsession with many managers but it seldom brings a lot of benefit to a well-established company.

And let's use a multiple-hub EW (Vienna, Cologne, Brussels...) to take care of the leisure destinations of the group, including those served by SN (mostly) during the summer season. And give it some time to establish its name and reputation before even thinking of making other changes.

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by DannyVDB »

Hi b720,

I fly SN, LH very often and to a lesser extent also LX, OS (have around 60 flights/year with them). To be honest, I don't see big differences in services of those 4 airlines. They have the same 2 classes, and even the division of economy in three types of fares/services is there ... Interior of the planes: don't see the difference (LH has no business class seat on short haul either), the way they treat you (is =), pricing (= variable on all of them - I found cheap tickets on SN and LH - never on LX :D - depends on the timing of your booking). Moreover I found the flex formula of SN very good value for money; in fact a business with real flexibility (calcellation WITHOUT cost, changing flights WITHOUT costs, access to the fast lane, in front of plane, since recently also a decent food product) but without all the 'fuzz'/'balbla' (champagne (?), full meal). Finally, I usually find the LH/LX/OS attendants less friendly and I found the SN staff more helpfull and friendly (but this is of course only based on my flights). In short, I like the mixed offering of SN and you pick whatever suites you. It is definitely not a Easyjet/Bueling/Ryanair/...

Maybe I missed something that LH offers and SN don't, but I don't see it.

By the way also on laung haul, I don't see the difference.

On a side note within LH offerings there are also big differences. An example: recently I flew LH to Los Angeles in business. Outbound it was a B747-800 and I was on the upper deck; personally I was having very small hand luggage, but some people could not fit their hand luggage in the bins (although it wad a regular size) and they had to search for 'space' downstairs (very annoying since each time they needed something they had to go a look for it!); in the A380 which I flew inbound there was everywhere space, no problem at all.

Just my 2 cents,
Danny

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Lufthansa is currently discussing a deeper collaboration between Eurowings and Brussels Airlines, which is 45 percent owned by the German airline. Spohr also raised the possibility of a broad partnership with tour operator Thomas Cook Group Plc, saying any potential talks about cooperation need not be limited to the British company’s Condor charter airline unit, which Lufthansa used to own.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... mand-wanes

Die Partner SunExpress und Tuifly absolvieren bereits für Eurowings Flüge mit ihren eigenen Jets und Besatzungen im so genannten «Wet Lease». Erster weiterer Kandidat ist laut Spohr die belgische Minderheiten-Beteiligung Brussels Airlines, über deren Komplettübernahme Lufthansa bis Oktober entscheiden muss. Sie würde in diesem Fall in die Eurowings integriert.

http://www.wn.de/Welt/Wirtschaft/244472 ... e-billiger

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by sean1982 »

Boeing767copilot wrote:Lufthansa is currently discussing a deeper collaboration between Eurowings and Brussels Airlines, which is 45 percent owned by the German airline. Spohr also raised the possibility of a broad partnership with tour operator Thomas Cook Group Plc, saying any potential talks about cooperation need not be limited to the British company’s Condor charter airline unit, which Lufthansa used to own.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... mand-wanes

Die Partner SunExpress und Tuifly absolvieren bereits für Eurowings Flüge mit ihren eigenen Jets und Besatzungen im so genannten «Wet Lease». Erster weiterer Kandidat ist laut Spohr die belgische Minderheiten-Beteiligung Brussels Airlines, über deren Komplettübernahme Lufthansa bis Oktober entscheiden muss. Sie würde in diesem Fall in die Eurowings integriert.

http://www.wn.de/Welt/Wirtschaft/244472 ... e-billiger
and the morph to an LCC has begun as predicted, although quicker than I expected tbh

Bapt'
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Bapt' »

SN2723 flight to GVA operated by Carpatair today
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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by sn26567 »

Bapt' wrote:SN2723 flight to GVA operated by Carpatair today
This is mentioned in the "Planespotting - Belgium" forum, under topic "BRU 04/07/2016".

https://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewtopic ... 21&t=58858

I guess it is a wet-lease, but what about the cabin crew?

And, as I wrote in the Planespotting forum, with this F100 lease and the WDL BAe146 lease, I wonder if one of the Avro TJ100s has not been sent back to the lessor too early...
André
ex Sabena #26567

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skumfiduse
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by skumfiduse »

sn26567 wrote:
And, as I wrote in the Planespotting forum, with this F100 lease and the WDL BAe146 lease, I wonder if one of the Avro TJ100s has not been sent back to the lessor too early...
Or business is growing faster than expected after 22 March. Or how about delayed arrival of additional Airbus A319/A320 equipment?

Freken
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Freken »

Ansett wrote:Food you pay for in "Light" is MUCH better, and now they are going to offer or sell (?) frites and warm "gaufres liégeoises" ? Not what I would call healthy food and imagine the smell in the plane :-(
You sometimes have to make compromises, either stick to the menu, which is quite healthy, or let customers experience a Belgian (perhaps not so healthy) product. Further more, these fries are baked in the oven on board and produce nearly no, if even any smell.

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by b720 »

agree that the catering on Flex is horrible. The cold pasta salads they served for the longest time were horrible. Quality of wine is bad, I took beer. The only interesting Perk is the fast track at security. For the rest, not worth it at all. I am certainly not looking forward to the cabin smelling like a frituur!! Let's see how that will evolve.

teach
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by teach »

It's quite hilarious to see that people here actually seem to think SN will be deep frying the chips on board the aircraft, causing the plane to smell like a 'frituur'.

Think, people. Think.

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by b720 »

warming up "pre" fried friet smells even worse than a frituur, mark my words! Let's wait and see.

teach
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by teach »

b720 wrote:warming up "pre" fried friet smells even worse than a frituur, mark my words! Let's wait and see.
Ever heard of oven fries?

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Passenger »

Although I think that a discussion about fries / French fries / frieten / frites / patat is a bit too off topic for "Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective", allow me to join in: I'm quite sure that a tasting panel at Brussels Airlines has tested the smell onboard an aircraft. And it also depends on the way that they are pre-baked. If that was done via the principle of an Airfryer (hot air only): no problem. If they were pre-baked in oil, that may cause a problem when heated. But even when pre-baked in oil, I'm pretty sure that the smell was judged as acceptable before the green light was given to Catering.

Regarding "the wine is bad" / "the quality of the wine is bad": that reminds me to me kids when they were young. They also said "spinach tastes bad!". No , seriously, "bad wine"? Just like with every other airline, the wine is also tasted previously by a panel.

Anyway - to get it a bit more on topic: the international press will report these fries and waffles, hence it's an image-improvement.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by sn26567 »

Passenger wrote:Although I think that a discussion about fries / French fries / frieten / frites / patat is a bit too off topic
You forget the word used in England's English: "chips", like in "Fish & Chips" ! ;)

Oh yes, the title of the topic is "Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective! And the future is not bright for Brussels Airlines, if one hears what Carsten Spohr said yesterday: LH would exercice its option to purchase the remaining 55% in October and integrate SN into Eurowings!

What? And does the current management (which includes some LH people) agree? Didn't Gustin say that the future airline should retain some "Belgitude" (or Belgian roots, if you prefer)? And Eurowings to Africa, that would be the best joke of the year, no, of the century!
André
ex Sabena #26567

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by b720 »

They need to work on their punctuality, (4/6 flights I took last 2 weeks delayed over 1 hour, the 5th got cancelled after 3 hour delay. The 6th was delayed, but less than an hour. ground services next to non existent once a flight is cancelled. I actually called LH in Frankfurt to get my flight sorted! And they need to operate a call center 24 hrs 7/7!!! Not till 7 pm and no one to call on sundays???? All the (odorless) fries and waffles in the world will make no difference before they fix the issues pointed out above.
Comparing to LH and LX, airlines I take now, instead of SN..connecting in ZRH or MUC is still less stressful and saves time compared to DELAYED direct SN flights. All sectors I took on both LH and LX departed at scheduled time, even from BRU!

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by sean1982 »

sn26567 wrote:
Passenger wrote:Although I think that a discussion about fries / French fries / frieten / frites / patat is a bit too off topic
You forget the word used in England's English: "chips", like in "Fish & Chips" ! ;)

Oh yes, the title of the topic is "Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective! And the future is not bright for Brussels Airlines, if one hears what Carsten Spohr said yesterday: LH would exercice its option to purchase the remaining 55% in October and integrate SN into Eurowings!
Well there's a surprise .... Not. Few of us on the forum have been predicting this for a while now. The naysayers always knew better though :roll:

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Passenger »

Great. One indirect remark in a Bloomberg article and one indirect remark in an article in a regional German newspaper, and there it is: the decision has been taken. It is final. Irreversable. Lufthansa has decided. Not only they take over Brussels Airlines for the full 100%, but they will also integrate it into Eurowings and thus transform Brussels Airlines into a LCC.

Allow me to interrupt the party.

Why are there no direct quotes in the two articles?

Why hasn't Spohr informed Brussels Airlines yet that the decision is made? There a lot of Brussels Airlines staff here, and I can't imagine that not one of them would tell us that the above press scoops are correct (Bloomberg, Westfälische Nachrichten). Same applies for the Brussels Airlines shareholders: not of one them has called De Tijd or L'Echo with breaking news yet. Strange...

I can only think of one reason: Spohr likes to mislead the competition. So he speaks to a few journalists after the press conference, in vague terms, and they do what Spohr hopes they would do: send out a false message.

Brussels Airlines's strength is that they are a hybrid airline. They have good business travel into BRU (thanks to the European Union, international HQ's, lobby groups and the Nato). They have good business from Africa (thanks to the Sabena heritage and good Africa management). And they managed to stop Ryanair from growing in Brussels and Charleroi. Will Eurowings Belgium will be able to maintain this? I doubt that Spohr thinks they will.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: And they managed to stop Ryanair from growing in Brussels and Charleroi. Will Eurowings Belgium will be able to maintain this? I doubt that Spohr thinks they will.
Lol

http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/48 ... in-belgium

Image

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Conti764 »

sean1982 wrote:
sn26567 wrote:
Passenger wrote:Although I think that a discussion about fries / French fries / frieten / frites / patat is a bit too off topic
You forget the word used in England's English: "chips", like in "Fish & Chips" ! ;)

Oh yes, the title of the topic is "Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective! And the future is not bright for Brussels Airlines, if one hears what Carsten Spohr said yesterday: LH would exercice its option to purchase the remaining 55% in October and integrate SN into Eurowings!
Well there's a surprise .... Not. Few of us on the forum have been predicting this for a while now. The naysayers always knew better though :roll:
Not that it matters alot, but I will principally refuse to fly this bleak German low cost rifraf if this comes through...

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote:
Passenger wrote: And they managed to stop Ryanair from growing in Brussels and Charleroi. Will Eurowings Belgium will be able to maintain this? I doubt that Spohr thinks they will.
Lol
http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/48 ... in-belgium
De truuk met de duif. Calculate a market share for Belgium and say that's your market share for Brussels. Some press will believe it.

Fact: Ryanair at Brussels Airport, 2015: 1,8 mio passengers.
Fact: Brussels Airport, 2015: 23.460.018 passengers.
Thus: market share for Ryanair at Brussels Airport for 2015 was 7,67%.

Conclusion: de duif is dood. A 7,67% market share at Brussels Airport is bad after the initial announcement that they would take over Brussels Airport from Brussels Airlines. Weren't the quotes from O'Leary to Brussels Airlines: "get lost... move to another airport... you're too small to compete to us at Brussels... We'll crush you if you start a price war..."

(the 10% increase at Charleroi for 2015 then is just a troostprijs)

(edited: number of passengers Brussels Airport adjusted)

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