Reopening Brussels Airport after the 22/03/2016 terror attacks

[jan_olieslagers]

sorry @convair and sorry @thalenoi, the concept of a "public service" is well and truly dead in Western Europe.

Say thanks to one Mrs. T. from the UK and all those who followed her belief!

Today, the one and only rule is "yer pays yer monies and yer gets wot yer pays for" and as we seem to have collectively decided to pay as little as possible we have collectively accepted to get as little as "they" can offer in return.

But frankly, does this have much relation to the reopening of BRU? I'll bet you things are little different at other airports in Western Europe.

[sn26567]

Well, I Am fulminating.

But frankly, does this have much relation to the reopening of BRU?

This has to do with the reopening of BRU after the attacks. Without the strike of the airport police, this pre-check (and the problems that it creates) would never exist. "To serve and protect" ? That's good for the US...

I sincerely hope that some people at BRU airport management or PR read Thalenoi's story and log a protest at the airport police. And to make sure, I sent the link of his story to the airport PR. I already got a reply that they will take care of it.

And, by the way, if you want to fly through AMS next time, "FNV trade union has announced that security staff will have a short work stoppage of 20 minutes at 7pm" tonight. These strikes get longer every time: it started with 10 minutes, then 15 minutes and now 20 minutes...

[jan_olieslagers]

Without the strike of the airport police, this pre-check (and the problems that it creates) would never exist.

I am fully willing to believe that. But what does that change to thalenoi's need for help with cumbersome lugguage? Are you promising he will get better assistance if things are back to "normal" (if ever)(and whatever that may mean) ?

[sn26567]

Without the strike of the airport police, this pre-check (and the problems that it creates) would never exist.

I am fully willing to believe that. But what does that change to thalenoi's need for help with cumbersome lugguage? Are you promising he will get better assistance if things are back to "normal" (if ever)(and whatever that may mean) ?

If he can arrive at the check-in desks without being stopped at the useless pre-check, the check-in agents from whichever airline will be more than happy to help him with his bags!

[Inquirer]

sorry @convair and sorry @thalenoi, the concept of a "public service" is well and truly dead in Western Europe.

Say thanks to one Mrs. T. from the UK and all those who followed her belief!

Today, the one and only rule is "yer pays yer monies and yer gets wot yer pays for" and as we seem to have collectively decided to pay as little as possible we have collectively accepted to get as little as "they" can offer in return.

In all fairness jan_olieslagers, but public servants are not exactly paid peanuts in Belgium are they, especially not taking into account their full remuneration package. Okay, they won't get a company car, but the moment they have a job which makes them work outside of the 9-5 envelope, they are entitled to early retirement, and in any case on quite generous terms too, compared to private pensions that is.
The pension advantages are often conveniently forgotten by public servants whenever they complain about their at best mediocre (sic) remuneration.

But I agree the '"servitude" of public services is close to zero these days in Belgium, especially in the south: it seems to be foremost self interests which are taking the upper hand there, since every possible and much needed change proposed to them (changes which have long been implemented in the private sector btw) is seen as a malicious assault on their vested personal interests and benefits.

Anyway, some further good news from the airport:
According to De Tijd, the airport's terminal will be running at full capacity on June 2nd, thus making the tents redundant from that date on.
Also the links between bus and railway stations and the arrival and departure halls will be reestablished. http://www.tijd.be/politiek_economie/be ... 1464618954

[sn26567]

Anyway, some further good news from the airport:
According to De Tijd, the airport's terminal will be running at full capacity on June 2nd, thus making the tents redundant from that date on.
Also the links between bus and railway stations and the arrival and departure halls will be reestablished.

Not necessary to read De Tijd. Luchtzak also has the news:

https://www.aviation24.be/airports/brussel ... ll-2-june/

[jan_olieslagers]

@inquirer: it was not my intention to say anything about staff, or their wages. I rather criticise the race to the bottom with both airline and airport operators - and indeed with just about every public service today. As consumers, we must stop systematically buying the cheapest, or we will be killing our own economy.

Indeed I believe the future is to any company that offers good service at a fair price, instead of bottom service for a bottom price as we see flourishing today.

(carefully avoiding the comparison to railways... )

(and yes, some from Southern Belgium seem to be set on digging their own grave but that's a political discussion)

[b720]

Flew out of BRU, last Thursday, for the first time since March 21 (my last flight into BRU)..
Very very sad impression. The whole atmo. Is negative. From the horrendous check point ..
To everything. It took me exactly 30 min from car park 3 to hand luggage security at the connector.. Thursday 6 pm. Flew with SN, terminal 1? Tent upstairs... Had to walk the length of the
Tents then in again... A choice of two entrances, one with security, the other without.. I could choose!! Anyways, another long walk in the terminal... Police and army.. Some military outside had their faces covered! I am very sorry, where are we? Medellin? I am very sure that the same level of false security provided today can be achieved with same number of police or military dressed in civilian..a bit invisible, but present. Apart from Belgians, I am pretty sure that many foreigners will not want to return.. We are scaring people away. It all looks amateurish, aggressive, inconvenient, expensive, and above all useless. We need to get back to normality, ASAP.

[Inquirer]

@inquirer: I rather criticise the race to the bottom with both airline and airport operators - and indeed with just about every public service today. As consumers, we must stop systematically buying the cheapest, or we will be killing our own economy.

Indeed I believe the future is to any company that offers good service at a fair price, instead of bottom service for a bottom price as we see flourishing today.

I see what you mean now, Jan_olieslagers;
I thought you were only talking about civil servants there, hence my reaction.
You are perfectly right that the panic arrival of certain low cost airlines at BRU put (too) much pressure on BRU based subcontractors who were not economically fit to accomodate them at profitable rates, which has not surprisingly lead to social unrest and meant unreliable service levels for everybody at the airport.
It's why it's not such a smart thing to allow these kind of disruptive airlines at vital crossroads of our economy without clear restrictions on their number of routes, frequencies, volumes and prices offered: local as well as transfer passengers who very frequently make use of BRU for its good accessability and wide availability of air travel options for their own work as well as that of thousands of others should not be put in peril because of the desire to open the airport to individuals who want to occasionally benefit from some cheap air travel for their own personal pleasure.


In today's copy of De Tijd, there's an interview with CEO A. Feist on the next stept in the steady return to normality at BRU. Interesting reading if you have some time to spare: http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaar ... 1464675443
Some interesting quotes
(italic notes are my personal thoughts):

Arriving 60 min before departure is enough, even with luggage.

April saw 46% less passengers than last year; May will see 15 to 20% less passengers than last year.
(interesting how the home airlines seem to perform much better than the average of the airport)

2016 should see at least 21M passengers at BRU.

Revenues impacted by 80-90M euro, but mostly covered by insurance: remaining cost more than 10M euro
(seems much of the financial impact of the terror attacks is covered by insurances, because after brussels airlines, now brussels airport too thinks they can recover much/most of their losses: are these private or public insurances (i.e. government?)

Economic relationship between BRU and Brussels Region got demonstrated during the 12 days closure, so A.Feist hopes to be able to work better together with the Brussels Region in future.
(a hint the anti-BRU politicians in Brussels better think twice when they want to block the airport, as they effectively kill their own local economy too?)

Social climate needs to calm down, for reliability is key in the swift recovery of the airport.
(see discussion above)

Transfer passengers are the most important group of passengers for the airport.
(Brussels Airlines and their STAR alliance partners will love this, I am sure, as BRU seems to be very close in bed with them these days, as also evidenced by the fact they get full priority everywhere)

[sean1982]

What a surprise

[lumumba]

@inquirer: I rather criticise the race to the bottom with both airline and airport operators - and indeed with just about every public service today. As consumers, we must stop systematically buying the cheapest, or we will be killing our own economy.

Indeed I believe the future is to any company that offers good service at a fair price, instead of bottom service for a bottom price as we see flourishing today.

I see what you mean now, Jan_olieslagers;
I thought you were only talking about civil servants there, hence my reaction.
You are perfectly right that the panic arrival of certain low cost airlines at BRU put (too) much pressure on BRU based subcontractors who were not economically fit to accomodate them at profitable rates, which has not surprisingly lead to social unrest and meant unreliable service levels for everybody at the airport.
It's why it's not such a smart thing to allow these kind of disruptive airlines at vital crossroads of our economy without clear restrictions on their number of routes, frequencies, volumes and prices offered: local as well as transfer passengers who very frequently make use of BRU for its good accessability and wide availability of air travel options for their own work as well as that of thousands of others should not be put in peril because of the desire to open the airport to individuals who want to occasionally benefit from some cheap air travel for their own personal pleasure.


In today's copy of De Tijd, there's an interview with CEO A. Feist on the next stept in the steady return to normality at BRU. Interesting reading if you have some time to spare: http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaar ... 1464675443
Some interesting quotes
(italic notes are my personal thoughts):

Arriving 60 min before departure is enough, even with luggage.

April saw 46% less passengers than last year; May will see 15 to 20% less passengers than last year.
(interesting how the home airlines seem to perform much better than the average of the airport)

2016 should see at least 21M passengers at BRU.

Revenues impacted by 80-90M euro, but mostly covered by insurance: remaining cost more than 10M euro
(seems much of the financial impact of the terror attacks is covered by insurances, because after brussels airlines, now brussels airport too thinks they can recover much/most of their losses: are these private or public insurances (i.e. government?)

Economic relationship between BRU and Brussels Region got demonstrated during the 12 days closure, so A.Feist hopes to be able to work better together with the Brussels Region in future.
(a hint the anti-BRU politicians in Brussels better think twice when they want to block the airport, as they effectively kill their own local economy too?)

Social climate needs to calm down, for reliability is key in the swift recovery of the airport.
(see discussion above)

Transfer passengers are the most important group of passengers for the airport.
(Brussels Airlines and their STAR alliance partners will love this, I am sure, as BRU seems to be very close in bed with them these days, as also evidenced by the fact they get full priority everywhere)

Natuurlijk is de luchthaven belangrijk voor Brussel en België .
Maar het kan geen Internationaal hub worden zoals Amsterdam of Frankfurt of nacht vluchte zoals in Luik.
De luchthaven is te dicht en te slecht gelegen tegenover dichtbevolkt gebied.
Het kan niet teveel groeien het moet en middelmatig luchthaven zonder nachtvluchten worden zo kunnen we gezond verder en samenleven.

[Passenger]

Natuurlijk is de luchthaven belangrijk voor Brussel en België. Maar het kan geen Internationaal hub worden zoals Amsterdam of Frankfurt of nacht vluchte zoals in Luik. De luchthaven is te dicht en te slecht gelegen tegenover dichtbevolkt gebied. Het kan niet teveel groeien het moet en middelmatig luchthaven zonder nachtvluchten worden zo kunnen we gezond verder en samenleven.

BRU has no ambition to become a hub airport like AMS or FRA because they know the main carrier lacks intercontinental destinations. Simply because the main carrier doesn't need a worldwide network: Brussels Airlines has easy feeders to Lufthansa's worldwide network. Only exception - but an important one - is sub-Sahara-Africa, where Brussels Airlines is the leading western European airline. Thus making Brussels Airport a hub for those destinations (except, so far, for Lufthansa's destinations Johannesburg, Cape Town and Windhoek).

BRU has no ambition to become a "night flight airport" like LGG. However, some operators at Brucargo need both day flights and nights flights. "No night flights", as you suggest, would also mean that also day time operations have to move, meaning loss of employment.

Living together in peace? Sure, but in a level playing field please. Regarding airports, that means the same noise restrictions for all airports in Belgium, and the same night curfew for all competing airports within a 500 km range.

Regarding living together with the people living closeby. I don't agree that night flights should be forbitten because an airport is near a "densely populated area". It doens't matter if 1.000 or 100.000 live near the airport. Living together in peace should mean "we accept airport activities, but you arrange fair dispertion".

[teach]

Well, I Am fulminating.
At least sitting in the BA business lounge.
I am allowed 60 kg of luggage, but limited myself for once (because of Brussels Airport) to 40 kgs plus my cabin bag. A female police officer spotted me from far and with her arm made it clear I should go through the metal detector with my luggage. OK, i understand that.
Now I am a heart patient and not that fit any more at age 70.
Would you expect someone to help you lifting your bags seeing you have problems?
Don't, they will not move a finger, just wait you manage. Luckily the young man behind me helped lifting the second bag, quit high the metal detector band by the way.
At the other side no luggage carts and some male police watching the scene.
This I had to lift the 3 bags to the ground and wonder how to proceed.
I talked to the watching police who could not care less and told me to find some airport employee.
OK, I get to catch one who tells me where the luggage carts are outside the tent somewhere.
To make things better, it was raining...
I come back with a cart and again no one to help, everyone busing doing what they do.
I told the two alert police officers how nicely elderly people are treated at their tent.
Their reply: "the same treatment for every one"
Once I walked into the departure hall everything went smooth as before the terror attack.
Myself I am extremely unsatisfied, next stop Doha and Bangkok. I know by experience I will find helpful people there.
This check in at Brussels airport was the worst experience in all my years flying, I take at least 20 planes/year for over 50 years.
I have two trips BKK-AMS booked this year and unfortunately one BRU-LHR-YUL.
I agree all goes smoothly when don't have to hit the pre-check, but denying any help or compassion to elderly people is a no-no for me.
September will be AMS.

I tweeted a link to this thread to BRU's twitter account. Here's their response: "We're sorry to read about this disappointing experience and will certainly not fail to forward this to the federal police."

[Charlie Roy]

and will certainly not fail to forward this to the federal police

But isn't that the problem, the airport not getting involved in every part of the passenger's journey from arrival at the airport to boarding the aircraft

[thalenoi]

Flew out of BRU, last Thursday, for the first time since March 21 (my last flight into BRU)..
Very very sad impression. The whole atmo. Is negative. From the horrendous check point ..
To everything. It took me exactly 30 min from car park 3 to hand luggage security at the connector.. Thursday 6 pm. Flew with SN, terminal 1? Tent upstairs... Had to walk the length of the
Tents then in again... A choice of two entrances, one with security, the other without.. I could choose!! Anyways, another long walk in the terminal... Police and army.. Some military outside had their faces covered! I am very sorry, where are we? Medellin? I am very sure that the same level of false security provided today can be achieved with same number of police or military dressed in civilian..a bit invisible, but present. Apart from Belgians, I am pretty sure that many foreigners will not want to return.. We are scaring people away. It all looks amateurish, aggressive, inconvenient, expensive, and above all useless. We need to get back to normality, ASAP.

I concur with b720.

Commenting on my Sunday 29 May departure: my tent experience was a disgrace.
Where ever I departure from (BRU, YUL, UTH, BKK) friends drive me to the airport and accompany me (or pick me up) to the check-in making it an almost pleasurable experience (departures are rarely enjoyable) and limiting the luggage issues (I usually travel with 2 large and 1 small bag all on wheels)>

Last Sunday departure I used the P1 as Kiss-and-ride, was lucky to find 2 trolleys 2 floors up from P1 entrance (none near the lifts) and was on my own from there on. The metal detector band is probably 1m high, thus lifting a 25kg suitcase is no sinecure for elderly people (I normally have little issue at picking up luggage at arrivals or dropping at check-in) No help whatsoever from anyone in that tent, the fact I was refused to use the trolley to continue my walk to the departure hall and the "get out of here regardless how you manage it attitude, you want a trolley? get one somewhere, it's not our problem" and the attitude of the 2 military where you have to unload your suitcase from the metal detector are disgusting.

The whole tent set-up is a disgrace, never seen any where else than at BRU airport.

If just some airport employee would have been attentive and helpful to people with health/age issues I would not have had any issues really.

I do hope the tent will disappear and the normal Kiss-And-Ride re-in stored and friend/families allowed to accompany traveler/wait for at arrivals as in any other airport I have been.

The whole so called "security" reaction to the BRU attack is/was stupidity.
Belgium really looks like a failed state to me: lack of knowledge, coordination, plans, exercise, brains....

As a side note: I had no luggage issues arriving BKK for pick-up and domestic check-in, luggage was delayed due to mis-connection at DOH: 45 minutes connection time is also stupid from QR, I was lucky to catch my flight, but obviously my bags did not, got them the next day.

Conclusion:
A) If you have luggage avoid BRU airport as long as that stupid tent stays there.
B) Avoid scheduled connection flights with less than 60 minutes or should it be 90?

[Squelsh]

The whole tent set-up is a disgrace, never seen any where else than at BRU airport.

Well, honestly, it's not as if they wanted this tent to be setup, it's all cascading consequence from 22/3. It was temporary and would never be even an option in normal day-to-day operations.

DOH: 45 minutes connection time is also stupid from QR, I was lucky to catch my flight, but obviously my bags did not, got them the next day.

BRU is not the only flight with PAX connecting onward to BKK, there are so many, they can't keep waiting for all flights. I believe they have 3-4 BKK flights per day. Used to be all A380, don't know if that's still the case. Why not book with a later connection? Try the transit hotel in DOH , much recommended - specially the pool

[Conti764]

I do hope the tent will disappear and the normal Kiss-And-Ride re-in stored and friend/families allowed to accompany traveler/wait for at arrivals as in any other airport I have been.

With all due respect, thalenoi, and I fully agree with you that
(a) the tents should go
(b) people, other then travelers, should be allowed in the airport again
(c) those people watching, either airport employees, police or army, should have helped you as a curtousy

but what you discribe above is exactly what the kiss and ride is not intented for and why I think it should never return in its old state. It is intented to have people drop off passengers in front of the terminal and leave immediately. If somebody wants to go inside, help a passenger and say goodbye/have a coffee, one of the parking lots is where you should be...

What the new K&R should be, if it ever returns, it two through lanes with minimal parking space. One for taxi's and tour operator busses to drop off passengers and one for regular cars dropping of passengers. This system is way more managable for the police then the old system which was chaotic and only created frustration and traffic jams...

[convair]

What the new K&R should be, if it ever returns, it two through lanes with minimal parking space. One for taxi's and tour operator busses to drop off passengers and one for regular cars dropping of passengers. This system is way more managable for the police then the old system which was chaotic and only created frustration and traffic jams...

I fully agree with you. The drivers should not be allowed to get out of their car, except only to help discharging the luggage and a brief goodbye. It's organized like that in many airports and, wherever it is strictly enforced, it works perfectly well.
Under these conditions, the K&R is a normal facility you can expect at every airport and as such it MUST return at BRU as well.

[ezis_bis]

every airport.

Not really
Tallinn airport has no real K&R zone, you always need to get a ticket and go through barriers
Then again, the size of Airports is not comparable

This being said, we also used BRU last weekend
To arrive, everything went very smooth. Walked from the end of A-pier to the Old train station
We needed to be redirected a bit, the walk between the terminal and train station is slightly depressing
But alright, all in all, this was very acceptable

Leaving in Sunday, weather was not helping as it started to rain
The walk from the Old Train station to the Terminal is rather ridiculous, but probably the best possible. There even still are 'Don't walk here'- signs which confused some passengers. And then curling up to the right floor.
Alright, this is temporary, so we can live with it. At least I hope.
No pre-check for us, but gosh this became depressing. A fence around the Terminal, a tent which does not look too stable or too welcoming. It feels like entering a war zone or prison. Pick what fits best.

1. I hope this does not become permanent
2. If it does, they better built some better structure than this. And better flows for people
3. Do not make people feel they are not welcome

I understand some people really want this, but please don't create such bottlenecks, please make sure everything goes smoothly

Once inside, things went better. But seeing the locked off areas, does not improve the mood. It makes me saddest of all.

Inside the connector, things were business as usual, and very busy. Bith when we arrived as when we left. Hope not too many people avoid BRU at the moment, but for me the part between arriving at/from Airport and the moment you enter/leave the Terminal, really needs A LOT of improvement

[b720]

The K&R must return! People should be allowed the option of being dropped off in front of the terminal. Dropped off, and indeed the driver, should not leave the car. (maybe help unload as mentioned above) ..
The current situation resembles PRISON as someone mentioned. The parkings are a mess as a result of the current situation. Very difficult to find a spot to park!! They have raised the prices!!! 3-4 days 79 EUR at Parking 3? I never paid that much before..
Arrivals a disgrace as well. People waiting for loved ones, outside under the damp and wet bridge? Nothing less than disgusting and out right abuse of people. The attacks can not be used as an excuse. With the situation as it is today, another attack can take place. Nothing can stop a suicide bomber, not at BRU, nor elsewhere. No matter what precautions they take!!!
The way authorities have dealt with the aftermath of the attacks is a disgrace. The effects are even felt in the terminal. The SN lounge (The LOFT) is horrible these days! Packed by people who arrived early at the airport fearing hinder from security checks. No place to sit, filthy, no food, and no beverages!!! That was last week Thursday 6 pm! I was there! I left, and grabbed a beer at the new Belgian Cafe. Boarding passes were not scanning just before hand luggage security, system down!!! Everyone had to line up and get past an agent.
Not very pleasant experience at all. Monday eve, return, luggage appeared 1h10 after landing! both flights with SN and both were delayed over 1 hour. A long queue at the parking exit to scan the ticket?? Monday past midnight!!! As everyone has to use the parking, a bottle neck at the exit. Some drivers overstayed their 15 min (free parking)..and the bar didn't rise..they had to step out and pay at the machines, resulting in a huge line of cars. Let us not even mention the pathetic military/police road block!! It feels like entering the Green zone in Baghdad.
Conclusion, AVOID BRU if traveling with Luggage. Avoid all together if another option is conveniently located.